The assault on women in this country...

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by LaSalleAve, Aug 23, 2012.

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  1. LSUMASTERMIND

    LSUMASTERMIND Founding Member

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    thats my point its not one vs the other.
     
    LSUMASTERMIND, Aug 31, 2012
    #91
  2. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    But the 1990's were rockin' economically. It was the best economic times any of us can remember. How does that figure?

    You can scoff at the limitations and say that they are not always adhered to, but they are real and and they have changed how welfare works. Much of what you say is true and obvious, but there is not a hell of a lot we can do except what we have done--make it harder to get, limit it, and require job searches. There just isn't any free lunch and it makes us mad. Sure, welfare has its problems, but what do you offer that works better?

    That's the trick, isn't it? It's easy to say cut them off, it will do them good. But in fact not even the Republicans are going to do that. None of them have. Modern nations do not abandon their indigents to starvation. Not even the Republicans want to create a beggar class like in India. We do not want shantytown barrios in America. Not even the Republicans.
     
    red55, Aug 31, 2012
    #92
  3. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    First, please point to where I said to eliminate welfare in totality or even said that the government has zero responsibility for aiding it's citizenry. A bank is in a far better situation to turn things around because they have a financial incentive and a basic infrastructure to support the effort. TARP was a short term solution, not the decades long progression of government dependence. And as I already pointed out, thousands of $8.25/hr (much more actually) automaker jobs were added under Obama's Presidency as a direct result of TARP and thousands more jobs avoided elimination.

    Companies ARE people.
     
    uscvball, Aug 31, 2012
    #93
  4. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    Mr. Rouge Cinq Cinq, :), the early 90's were a recession period. It takes some time for folks to recover financially, make the decision to reproduce, and then deliver the product. It wasn't an economic boom for me. As my income increased, so did my taxes, and my take home pay went the opposite direction. Still, the poor continue to be poor and that has been my argument about women and welfare. Single moms on welfare on not getting out of their situation.

    Limitations have had an impact yes, including how to cheat and work around them. I have never said to completely cut welfare recipients off. That makes no sense. I am also not willing to go with the limitation status quo because over time the limitations will continue to erode and we are back where we started. What makes a solution of any kind incredibly daunting is the social generational and psychological impacts that welfare has on human behavior. A growing part of the population has come to believe that the government owes them something, is responsible for taking care of them. Obamacare, school loan forgiveness, mortgage relief, and other such programs (both parties are responsible) only instill that same mentality. As the US continues to be under the Chinese owned debt, continues to outsource work and production, and continues to join a fractured world economy, we are effed.

    Oh, and there are shantytown barrios in America.
     
    uscvball, Aug 31, 2012
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  5. LSUMASTERMIND

    LSUMASTERMIND Founding Member

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    how exactly is Obamacare giving something away. I think you have to actually pay for the health insurance if Im not mistaken. He is not giving it away.
     
    LSUMASTERMIND, Aug 31, 2012
    #95
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    I understand, amiga. So what more can we do other than give them the subsistence-level support that they get, get them trained up and looking for work and limiting how long they can take this support? What else can we do but support the kids that are not responsible for their situation. More people work their way off welfare than you give credit for. Of course, we should weed out the deadbeats and stop the waste, but much of this is just part of the costs of nationhood. There have always been indigents and there always will be. I'm eager to hear of an alternative plan that does better than what we are doing.

    Another growing part of the population thinks that the government should play almost no role at all in an "every man for himself" wild west fantasy with lots of guns and Mad Max clothes. I, and the remaining independent pragmatists in this country, believe that there is a balance point to be found between these extremes. I think we're pretty close to that point right now. I await the V-plan and I hope it does not involve magic. :D

    Barrios for sure. Blighted 'hoods and projects, too. But not real third-world shantytowns. Not yet.
     
    red55, Aug 31, 2012
    #96
  7. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    shantytowns? please. the poor in america are fat.
     
    martin, Aug 31, 2012
    #97
    LSUMASTERMIND likes this.
  8. LSUMASTERMIND

    LSUMASTERMIND Founding Member

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    and not starving for anything, they have iphones and xbox.
     
    LSUMASTERMIND, Aug 31, 2012
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  9. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    when we talk about the poor in america, the thing that they actually struggle to afford is not housing or food or clothing. its health care. that is the real expense. its the one thing that has not gotten so cheap that anyone can afford it.

    everything is cheap as hell. you can buy a tablet computer for like 50 bucks. yesterday i bought a chromebook for 220. you can get unlimited prepay cell plans for like 45. everything is so cheap is basically free.

    except health care. that shit is expensive like crazy ridiculous.
     
    martin, Aug 31, 2012
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  10. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    I did not say healthcare was being given away. I said it and similar programs further the idea that the government is going to take care of everyone, that we are all owed something from the Feds. When privatization is forced out, competitive pricing, improved processes, and technological advancement are sacrificed. If the government runs healthcare the way they have the USPS we are all in for a short ride on this planet.
     
    uscvball, Aug 31, 2012
    #100
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