They begin history during the Crusades when the West invaded and occupied Palestine and then the European powers divided up the Middle East among themselves, which continued until WWII after which the West supported Israel taking Palestine from them. I repeat . . . all religions are intolerant of each other and will wage wars and violence in the name of their religion. You are confusing arguments. There are crazies among them who do terrorism, everyone agrees. There are also those among them who have shed the past and are very modern and progressive. Most muslims are just trying to scratch out a living in the third world and don't really give a political shit. But the religion Islam itself has a very different worldview than our own and they see themselves as victims of Western hegemony. We have killed many, many more of them than they of us. They do not see us as having any moral superiority whatsoever. Our view of ourselves is equally biased, of course.
It's not good enough. Just living life and blithely or quietly ignoring what their somewhat brethren are doing to innocents doesn't cut it IMO. See this is why I think they are quiet. Too many of them simply aren't bothered by the deaths being caused by terrorists. Subtle encouragement.
No, it doesn't. This is why the most essential people to take down islamic terror is the islamic people themselves. They have to do it, if it is going to be done. And it should be remembered that they have been killing each other for centuries and are still going at it with gusto. They are far from monolithic in temperament or character. It is going to take a major new leader in Islam to get them all on the same page. Unfortunately, he will also likely come from the East, wear a blue turban, be associated with the number 666, and behave rather beastly.
[red55 said] Red55 you invert the point...look back and my first post I said all religions' holy books can be interpreted for waging war or peace. That includes our bible and the Koran. It is the society that the religion as practiced reflects. Christianity was violent in the crusades and in the wars of the reformation. Basically the west has matured as a society and doesn't have holy wars. The ME and East where the most Muslims see as their home has not grown past that stage. I said it WASN'T the religion but the society...you seem to both agree and disagree with that statement. Which is it my friend? Not enough in fact as we have seen in Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, Algeria ad infinitum...too many easily shed their modern clothes and rage against Christians and Jews and the west. Whether the wear modern garb or use modern technology too many have shown too often their mores have NOT changed and beneath the façade of modernity still beats the heart of the tribesman. Again it isn't the religion but the society that has the worldview. Lest you think I am parsing words please note I am not. I think it important that we understand the difference between what a religion is and does and what a society reflects. As I have said before you can see many parallels between the way the ME and Arabs in particular act and the western Europeans did 1000ad to 1800ad.Western Europe was a violent and had many of the same mores as the ME does today. As you have noted the religious (in the crusades and Catholic church vs protestants during the wars of religion) carried our wars against the east and each other. For many reasons we matured and grew out of that though very slowly. There have been places where Islam is a peaceful religion and until very recently there was harmony in mixed societies. I don't meant Iraq under Saddam or Syria under Assad (those were harmonies veiled in violent suppression of opposition). I think we agree that fighting a religion and 2+ billion Muslims is self defeating at best. I think it is incumbent on those societies to change...of their own volition. I think and hope they will but it will take a long time...hell it took us over 400 years and we're still working on it. What we have to do is find a balance in pushing back the crazies and giving those who want to join the rest of the world in true modernity the time, tools and space to do so. One leader isn't enough it will take many and many years. The Arab spring was the beginning of probably many fits and starts before they get there.
Other than British characters in movies I have never heard anyone use the expression "rather beastly."
There was a literary reference there that you missed, Scooter. And a play on "pomposity" just to tweak your nose. Ya' got to be quicker than that.
I can't figure out why the news commentators still tack on RADICAL in front of ISLAMISTs. As Red has pointed out, the only folks to stop this are other ISLAMISTs and they are doing little if anything. Time to stop splitting hairs. ISLAMISTs are either part of problem or part of solution, and they ain't fixing crap. Harsh and politically incorrect, but there is a reason there are no Islamists on Star Trek!
This is an interesting article that tries to quantify the POV of the Muslim world. As noted there are many faces of Islam that reflect the society. There needs to be more like this to help understand this dynamic. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/10/how-to-measure-what-muslims-really-believe.html
nostradamus agrees. Out of the country of Greater Arabia Shall be born a strong master of Mohammed... He will enter Europe wearing a blue turban. He will be the terror of mankind. Never more horror.
