I do realize that. The graph is only a reference and not specific to the independent numbers dropping. The original question was "source?" on my statement about independents leaving Obama by the millions. I answered it.
It doesn't seem like we've talked about the thread title at all here. It has broken down to a conversation on healthcare overall so I will start. While I don't think this is the best way to make Americans accountable for their healthcare, it is something. My plans would be more radical to be honest but I actually support this tax. I would very much like to hear some counter arguments to it but the way I see it, it will force Americans to understand and be accountable for their healthcare. It's embarassing that most people don't know how much their healthcare costs. I switched to a HDHP on January 1st and will take the difference in premium and stick it in an HSA. This will allow me to contribute 5k to an HSA this year with my max out of pocket on my HDHP of 5650 I believe. How is this not a great deal? Meanwhile, I won't go to the doctor much (but i never do) and I will probably have a couple thousand bucks or so in my HSA at year end (I have to pay some delivery charges for a package my wife is carrying). Why is this bad? I personally would make co-pays illegal if I had my choice. Everyone would be on an HDHP with an HSA that employers could contribute to instead of paying for more expensive health plans. Now, when you go to the doctor, you don't pay 10 bucks, you pay 80. Are you sure you still want to go, or will you give it a couple of days?
Seems insane to me. I am not for anymore taxes, we are fixing to be overtaxed to death. I can probably have a doctors appointment without insurance cheaper or for $80. This is my gut reaction to your post. Edit: Do you support some being taxed and some not taxed like the Dems do too?
I do not support this tax but not because it isnt warranted, because the threshold is WAY, WAY too high. It was too high to begin with when Obama bowed to the unions. It should have been MUCH lower. $24,000 per year is ridiculous. The original $23,000 was ridiculous. Even self employed people with their own cadillac plans only pay half that much per year. The threshold should be $15000 per year.
I rarely, and I mean rarely support tax hikes. You are right, we are overtaxed, but the alternative is a 5% tax on everyone who makes over 500k a year or households that make over $1 million. Is that fair? And no I don't support some being taxed and some not. Why would my post indicate that? I support putting healthcare into the hands of those who use it. I have friends and colleagues that go to the doctor twice a month with their family. Nothing is ever wrong and they pay 10 dollars. This increases cost and long waits for healthcare and it's crippling us. Do you feel we can sustain the radical increases in healthcare? We can't, I assure you. While I don't love this tax, it's better than the alternative on the table. I've told you what I would do if it were up to me because I really feel we have to do something radical to fix this problem. Most of these expensive plans are quite ridiculous. They offer $10 co pays on doctor visits and drugs. They cover everything imaginable. I don't know about the level but you'd be surprised at how many have plans this high. Just ask the union bosses.
No I don't know, I'm just ticked off about what is happening in DC. Gut reaction. I can probably agree with you but I don't think we can sustain our lifestyle either when you consider what this radically left administration is trying to do. I'm not convinced it is more of a problem than anything else right now. I don't believe these people in office will fix it do you? I think they will just make things worse. I would probably agree but I don't think its any worse than anything else. What is the answer? It certainly aint what the Dems are attempting to do. It seems like everything plays a role, tort reform, deregulation of some of the industry for starters. Right now I am anti-anything that these people are trying to do. It shouldn't surprise anyone why I have a negative reaction to taxes when you look at what is being attempted by radical leftists.
I totally understand, and while I don't support this bill because of a lot of the things in it, I support what they are trying to do with this particular part of the bill. Even if we disagree with almost everything this administration is doing, we have to be careful not to shoot down every idea because we have blinders on due to our frustration.
I disagree, Right or wrong, I won't accept anything from an administration that has blinders on, shuts out any opposition to a bill and goes into seclusion to write a bill. Most of the people who signed this last month has no clue of what is in the bill. This is Chicago Thug politics and its also anti-American. This is not the way government was intended to run in this country. Edit:What ever happened to minority rights? Remember when the Dems where the minority party?
The answer is to get away from the model where $10 co-pays are a way of life and return to a model where we cover everything but the truly catostropic stuff comes out of pocket. Plans with low co-pays encourage bad consumer behaviors and consumes precious resources. I have a high deductible plan. I pay the first $5,200 dollars out of pocket. Rest assured that no one in my family goes to the doctor for the sniffles. My premiums have also not gone up the way others have. In fact they went down in 2008, were flat in 2009, and increased about 4 percent for 2010. The other thing we have to address is our end of life care. We spend way too much money performing procedures on the elderly trying to save lives that cannot reasonably be saved. Should we really be doing $100,000 open heart surgeries on an 80 year olds who have no chance of survival? I know it isn't popular to talk about, but we need to get a handle on this. Those over 65 should be required to create a living will upon enrolling in Medicare.
I agree, lets do this and find a way to defeat Obamacare! Edit: Are you saying that if you are over 65-70 you shouldn't be able to have any kind of life saving surgeries? There is a lot here that is too general with this statement. I might totally agree with your statement for someone that is 80 years of age. I think 65 is too young to give them a pain pill and let them die.
