News Stephan Hawking Declares There is No God

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Bengal B, Sep 26, 2014.

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  1. flabengal

    flabengal Founding Member

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    Mythical creations stories are not really the subject here, are they? You are the one that seems obsessed with the seven day thing. I will leave it alone and not mention it. I hope you do as well. It's a waste of time.

    I think this is going down the wrong track. I will try and make both our lives easier and address a topic that should help either you or me regarding our relative positions.
     
    flabengal, Oct 28, 2014
    #381
  2. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    I was pretty much in agreement with a lot of what you have been saying regarding the symbolism of the time span of the creation of the universe. A "symbolic" DAY ONE could have been a literal 10 million years. But now for you to say you don't believe in evolution takes the cake. Couldn't you when faced with overwhelming scientific evidence that man evolved from lesser species just consider that Adam and Eve were symbolically members of the first generation of Cro Magnan people who had evolved from the Neanderthals?
     
    Bengal B, Oct 28, 2014
    #382
  3. flabengal

    flabengal Founding Member

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    I would believe in evolution if the evidence were there to support it but it is not, in my opinion. I am well aware of the fact that I am in the minority on this but it does not bother me. I don't believe in evolution, not because it clashes with the Catholic Church (which it does not) but because it is a weak theory.
     
    flabengal, Oct 28, 2014
    #383
  4. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Dogma is a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true. It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology or belief system, and it cannot be changed or discarded without affecting the very system's paradigm, or the ideology itself. The term can refer to acceptable opinions of philosophers or philosophical schools, public decrees, religion, or issued decisions of political authorities.

    The term "dogmatic" can be used disparagingly to refer to any belief that is held stubbornly, including political and scientific beliefs.

    I know what I meant and clarified it twice already for you. I think you should understand now.

    Are you or are you not contending that biblical creation is correct and science is incorrect? You are walking both side of the argument here. You cannot have it both ways.

    The Catholic Church has long conflicted with science. The Inquisition convicted Galileo of heresy for saying that the earth revolves around the sun. They contradict Stephan Hawkings now.

    So, the earth is the center of the universe, eh? The zoological books of Gesner and the astronomy book of Copernicus were placed on the list of prohibited books. Interestingly, the Church actually accepts Darwin's theory of evolution.

    Science approaches questions logically and improves answers as science advances. Religion decrees an answer and then stubbornly (and dogmatically) holds onto it even in the face of impossibility.
     
    red55, Oct 28, 2014
    #384
  5. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Then how it is weak? What exactly do you believe? Not one scientific alternative has survived. Evolution has overwhelming acceptance by scientists and is generally only disputed by those with religious beliefs that are in conflict. But not all of them, including the Catholic Church.

    In 1996, John Paul II suggested evolution was “more than a hypothesis” and “effectively proven fact”.

    Speaking at the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Pope Francis made comments which experts said put an end to the “pseudo theories” of creationism and intelligent design that some argue were encouraged by his predecessor, Benedict XVI. “When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so,” Francis said.
     
    red55, Oct 28, 2014
    #385
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Are they not? The thread is about whether God created the universe or not. You are speaking as a Christian, as you have made clear. You stated that you believe that Hawkings is wrong. So how was the universe created?
     
    red55, Oct 28, 2014
    #386
  7. flabengal

    flabengal Founding Member

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    You used the word dogma, not dogmatic. If you had used the word dogmatic we would not be wasting time over this. It's not my fault you are being sloppy with your language. Are you denying that you typed the word dogma?

    This is getting childish, just admit you used the wrong word and move on. I don't care....I thought maybe you had a point when you originally wrote that.

    No I am not contending that science is incorrect. I am contending that the two do not conflict. I do not believe the universe was created in seven days. If you can find where I ever asserted that it was then I will, in the words of Coach Frank Wilson, "kiss my own ass".

    The Catholic Church has never been in conflict with science, to my knowledge. Where was the Church doling out scientific theories? In which books did they do this? I would like to read them.
     
    flabengal, Oct 28, 2014
    #387
  8. flabengal

    flabengal Founding Member

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    This is getting beyond stupid. Now you are quoting Popes about evolution? And Stephen Hawking in regard to the existence of God?

    And you claim you are being relentlessly logical?
     
    flabengal, Oct 28, 2014
    #388
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  9. flabengal

    flabengal Founding Member

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    How can Galileo be convicted of heresy when geocentrism is not a dogma of the Church? Are you sure he was convicted of heresy? I thought he was just put under house arrest.

    I have never said the earth was the center of the universe. Did the Church say this? Who said this, a scientist or a Bishop? I thought it was a medieval european astronomer who was a Catholic, I would be suprised if it came from a Bishop.

    Which Church documents are you referring to? I would like to read them.
     
    flabengal, Oct 28, 2014
    #389
  10. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Three times I have noted for you that dogma is not a word exclusive to the Catholic Church. Failure to comprehend at this point is not my problem.

    Galileo? Copernicus? Heresy? If you continue to ignore my responses like I never made them, there is little point in responding any further.

    I'm trying to get you to state WHAT you believe and WHY you believe it. All you are doing is dodging and weaving. I don't blame you. I know it's hard to make a case for creationism.
     
    red55, Oct 28, 2014
    #390
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