It's coming. "The move in South Carolina to remove the Confederate flag from the statehouse grounds is prompting members of Congress to take a new look at Confederate images that surround them every day, including statues of Stephens, Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee, Confederate President Jefferson Davis and a number of other Confederate leaders or fighters. "I want to see it go. I want to see it go," Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., a leader during the civil rights movement of the 1960s, said of the statue of Stephens, who also served as Georgia's governor. "Young children, school children, walk by these statues, and those of us who serve in the Congress, we have to get our own house in order," Lewis said. "We have to have a cleansing in this place." What I find sad is that somehow, the Civil War has now been boiled down to the incorrect notion that it was all about slavery and that the Confederacy was on the "wrong side" of things. Union generals and northerners were slave owners too. Southern agriculture and thus, the economy was the major driver of a war that cost more American lives than any other. And equally frustrating is the idea that removing all signs of the Confederacy is some panacea for curing racism. It will do no such thing. It has become the ultimate blame for everything bad that happens and the last thing that anyone seems really interested in trying to fix. I don't see or hear dialogue on either side, just a lot of finger pointing and name-calling. Right now, I feel like we look similar to this...
This has been interesting to watch from a distance, particularly the Left Coast where I'm certain you will be hard pressed to find any sign of the Confederacy. I agree that some of the reaction is knee-jerk although I see it on both sides, from the profile pic you mention, to the suggestion that all statues and things memorializing the Confederacy should be removed. I mentioned it once on a topic I can't recall at the moment....people, especially Americans, don't like to be told what they can and can't do. This concept of freedom is big and ingrained in our very foundations. The second you tell someone they aren't free, even in the smallest regard, they will react and it's often to a very ridiculous degree. For instance, the idea of politically correct speech has created a simmering frustration among people who are law abiding and respectful. A finger is pointing at them when they haven't done anything. I read that Sakerlina is now losing millions in lost tourism. That is not helpful to anyone in Sakerlina. I have to think that significant part of the tourism in the South is to visit Civil War sites, graveyards, monuments, etc. If it all disappears, what's the point in seeing nothing but Union killing fields? Talk about lost tourism $$. I live in a place that purports to like all kinds of folks. But there is just an much narrow-mindedness here as anywhere. The problems in CA in this regard is mostly about illegals. Every day, there are more Mexican flags being raised, more "rights" being given to those who are not citizens, etc. It's also the land of fruits and nuts so now we have the first high school in the country to offer a class on LBGT studies. So we all have issues. Ironic that I can't wait to get out of Dodge and move to an area currently under massive criticism.
Well it kinda was about slavery and the economic impact ending slavery would have on the south. Thats the legacy of the civil war, cut and dry. Peoples revisions are just that revisions. States right? A states right to keep in place the owning of human beings and free labor. No removing these symbols, will not stop racism, thats is in peoples hearts. But from what I have seen it sure has started a conversation that has been mostly positive with people from all walks of life calling for the removal of the symbols from republicans, democrats, black, whites, etc. That is a start to help heal racism and foster better relations between people who normally wouldnt have anything to do with each other. So im actually encouraged by the dialogue. So be disturbed by your notions that the "Civil War" was more than about slavery. I'll be encouraged and recognize revision when I see it. Fact of the matter is Slavery was the main event, regardless if some of the people who fought for the union owned slaves. The main result of it, was that you couldnt own a fucking human being anymore because the South lost! The same John Lewis you quoted is a hero of mine, who got the shit beat out of him for sitting in at a lunch counter. fyi
You're correct @LSUMASTERMIND the war was about slavery. If fact it was explicitly stated in many of the succession resolutions including S Carolina and Georgia. Also until 1860 the southern states were AGAINST states rights. They often tried to fight against northern states anti and fugitive slave laws by arguing against states rights. Another point in the debate about the battle flag is that in many if not most cases the flag was flown or included in states' flags only beginning in the 1960s during the integration era. I'm against removing the monuments for several reason but basically those whose are remembered especially Lee, Davis and so many others were much more than rebels and deserve to be remembered for both their failings and their strengths.
i'll agree to that, its more about considering the gesture that does more for race relations than focusing on symbolism in my mind. However, it burns me up like most other things dont to hear someone say that the war was more than slavery, when in fact that was the main event, I dont care how many revisions people come up with, thats the truth. And people who repeat that line of thinking are part of the bigger problem in my mind and I have no respect for intellectual dishonesty. Folks that claim heritage or ancestors that fought in the war are just as culpable to me, ancestry or not, if my ancestor owned slaves or apart of the black panthers, they are wrong, Im not going to celebrate that or be proud of it, because its the extreme and I cant acquiesce to shared DNA over horrors committed against humanity in both cases.
The industrial revolution going on in the North still needed Southern agriculture. They may have made slavery the argument, but as you said, it often comes from the heart and Northern hearts were no more noble. Certainly, that would never have lasted. Today, we still strongly support the idea of state's rights and the federal gov't checks in to guarantee that civil rights aren't being violated. That wasn't part of my point though. Is everyone's voice being heard? I don't know but I have my doubts. Do the people in Georgia want Stone Mountain carved up to remove the Confederate images? I guess from out here, I'm not seeing better relations or dialogue. Maybe it's different when you are in the middle of it. I said I was sad that the Civil War has now been encapsulated as a single issue with no regard for the entire truth. I won't argue with your points although I think the issues were more broad than that and to some extent, they still are. I know what his past is. I read very carefully about people before I speak on what they say and his voice is important. A cleansing though? Like I said, since the Union leaders owned slaves, better cleanse ALL Civil War symbols, tear down Mt Vernon, Jefferson Memorial and Monticello, all the Confederate leader paintings in the National Gallery.
This is a cop out. Noble or not, they were on the right side of the fight and many died as a result. I'll take that over if the intentions were pure, because the result was that all men were then created equal. As an example, WWII, America enters the war to stop a mad men, however, this country overflowed with anti-semantic rhetoric, etc. The result was we stopped a country from eradicating Jews, on the right side of the fight.
I just still can't see how being black in today's world is any different than bein white. Obviously I am white, but my wife never has any issues. Neither do my kids. She is as confused by all this as I am. I dunno, maybe it's where we live.
