How has Putin lost? Obama said "go home" and Putin said "Fuck you". I mean, we can say, "but we applied sanctions and kicked them out of the G*" but Putin does not give a shit.
I wouldn't have gotten involved at all. I am past caring and wasting money on other countries. I am fine with taking a backseat to the world and spending money on the American people...
I can agree with that as well, we cant police everything, but at the same time, you dont want Russia believing its 1958
True, but I see no option. Most of the world is not like America. Women think they have it bad here, they should go try and live in the middle east. Gays think they have it bad here, they should go try and live elsewhere. We have this arrogance that we can fix everyone problems. I believe most of the issues out there will fix themselves. Further, I only see a need to be involved only to the extent of preventing a world war. If a country wants to have a civil war, that's cool. We had ours.
I would like to think this way, we believed the same with Nazi Germany and didnt want to be involved. 6 million dead........ then we got involved after pearl harbor. we fought on our on soil with the results of millions dead from the slavery and more from the war itself, but we did something about it. So on some scale we should step in during atrocities. Thats what makes us better, but im not sure what we do in this situation.
To an extent I agree, but NATO is reactionary. I believe that you have to take actions that aren't popular. Like Syria, should have droned that retard and have been done with it. War is serious and I firmly believe we are misusing trained killers in the Middle East. America should not be used as a global police force.
I was pleased to see some unanimity of belief among the other members of the G8 to ostracize Russia. I definitely agree that Putin is a wild card. Thing is, with a guy like Putin, there is only so much that he can really do to us because his power is limited. That said, he has just enough power to do the small things that are just enough to rub some dust in our face. He did it to GWB and he's done it to Obama. In both cases, it isn't in our interest to intervene in any other way but economically. Putin has grossly miscalculated our "decline," and he will pay for his miscalculation. Worse, the people of Russia will suffer because of his miscalculation when their economy suffers. It is absolutely our duty to question and re-question the policies of our politicians so I don't begrudge those who question. I take exception when someone offers ignorant and silver bullet answers to complex and nuanced issues. I've supported most of Obama's foreign policy decisions but I've questioned others. I think we are all at least a little undone by the revelation of NSA spying and the extent our freedoms should be compromised in the name of security. It's a healthy discussion. Of course I criticized GWB on his Iraq policy. Perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough. We might fight like hell here among ourselves but when it comes to outsiders, we are united as Americans. It's like your relationship with siblings.....I used to fight like hell with my sisters and brothers but let some kids down the street start some shit and they got all of us.
I think your reasoning is all wrong here friend. As the worlds largest super power we have an obligation to exhaust all diplomatic opportunities before the consideration of force. Putin is a loose canon. This is not Obama's fault, no more than any other world leader. It is also a false narrative that is currently being perpetuated by right wingers that this is somehow a victory for Putin. The economic ramifications of this behavior will be dire and will ultimately land on the head of the Russian people. The other members of the G8 apparently agree with our course of action because they agreed to isolate Russia from further economic negotiations. The only way to see this is a win for Putin is if you really, really, really want to see Obama get a loss. I deplore what Russia has done but the international community is dealing with them appropriately.
Some of you keep saying this is serious for Putin and "dire", but no one can point out how and be specific. If it is so obvious to internet posters, then Putin would have to have known this. You dont just activate 30K plus troops because you woke up with a hardon.
OK, Putin says fuck you. Russian are proud and nationalistic, just like we are. But he will give a shit when he's left out of the G-7. Don't underestimate how badly Russia depends on Western money. The G-7 says that serious economic sanctions will apply if Ukraine is attacked. Don't underestimate how fragile the Russian economy is. They had a revolution just a couple of decades ago. Putin has to worry about that.
