Military So ISIS & the Middle East

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by LSUpride123, Aug 29, 2014.

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  1. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Yep.

    Yep.

    Utter nonsense. We spent 10 years on the ground fighting them in Iraq with a huge army on the ground and did not eliminate them. Nuclear weapons are not an option in a guerrilla war. Will everyone just stop repeating this bullshit.

    We are wasting no lives at all and very little money compare to the Iraq debacle. We learned some lessons there that we are not stupid enough to repeat.
     
    red55, Feb 19, 2015
    #411
  2. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    FIFY
     
    Bengal B, Feb 19, 2015
    #412
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  3. el005639

    el005639 Founding Member

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    militarily agree no match to us, but politically they run circles around us...and our inept leadership (both rep and dem) is concerned about not offending the world, by fighting this proxy war. We either break their will by sustained all out war, or come home and let the rest world deal with their shit.
     
    el005639, Feb 19, 2015
    #413
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  4. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Seriously? They are making political blunders of the highest order! Internationally denounced atrocities? Not a single ally? 60 nations allied against them? It's The Martyrdom Express and they are all aboard with an apocalyptic vision for their future. They make Al Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, Hamas and Hezbollah look noble.

    Geez, they are at war with Iran, Iraq, Syria, Hezbollah, and Al Qaeda as well as Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan and the rest of the Arab League and the United States of America and its western allies with the tenacious Kurds taking point! That's how politically astute they are. Saddam was an unbelievably incompetent politician, but Al Baghdadi absolutely takes the cake. It takes a special kind of political incompetence to maneuver yourself into a shooting war with every single one of your Muslim neighbors as well as the reigning Superpower.
     
    red55, Feb 20, 2015
    #414
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  5. el005639

    el005639 Founding Member

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    your using our measures of success to measure them. And that is the same mistake our "leaders" make. If they lose 90% of their troops they feel they still win because we quit. We certainly will not kill all them because we dont have the intestinal fortitude. Since some will remain they will be glorified as having vanquished the evil satan.

    To win this shit we will have to be as nasty as they are. And we have no will for that. So yes i believe they run circles around us.
     
    el005639, Feb 20, 2015
    #415
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  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Politics is politics and they suck at it. If you mean they cater to their base with their atrocities and terror and religious zealotry, yes they do, but it is a political farce. You are using their measures of success to measure us!

    Nonsense. We've been killing the terrorists wherever we find them for a decade now. In Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Somalia, and Sudan. We had the intestinal fortitude to send troops into Pakistan to kill bin Ladin. We killed the Somali pirates that captured Americans and they quit capturing American ships. We took down Qadaffi. There has been no lack of fortitude whatsoever where American interests are concerned.

    Who gives a shit about their rhetoric? The world is full of people who jealously resent us and cry loudly about it. So what? It is not necessary to kill them all. In fact, is is the height of stupidity and a waste of money and effort. Let them glory in their squalor. If they can't hurt us, fugg 'em.

    There is nothing to "win". The Middle East is a snowballing clusterfuck, like it has been forever, and we "win" by staying out of it to the best of our abilities. ISIS has nuthin' we need. We support our allies and we degrade our enemies, as we have always done. We can't solve all the worlds problems, to do so would be to squander what wealth, power, and political capital we have and get down to their level on their terms. It ain't gonna happen. Did you learn nothing from the Iraq debacle? Military power is not the solution to every problem.

    They run circles around us in atrocities, genocide, international condemnation, and contempt. And you think that we need to be better than them at this incompetence? Amazing.
     
    red55, Feb 21, 2015
    #416
  7. el005639

    el005639 Founding Member

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    Im sorry Red we disagree...their measure of success is the only one that matters. The last fanatics we faught to win were the Japanese. And we dont have the stomach for it any more. so we will be caught in this malaise forever
     
    el005639, Feb 21, 2015
    #417
  8. Tiger in NC

    Tiger in NC There's a sucker born everyday...

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    I am glad that you made this comment because this is exactly the thinking that all too often comes from the right as it pertains to terrorism. We are the superpower here and we never measure our success by someone else's measuring stick, much less the measuring stick of a bunch of thugs like ISIS. This kind of thinking is what leads to perpetual war. "Killing them all" isn't a strategy and if you call it one then you are do not understand the nature of warfare.

    I do understand frustration that ISIS seem to be popping up with videos of them murdering people ever other week or so but in truth Red is correct that they are in serious trouble.....not only from the US but from almost the entire Middle East. I am for continuing the air strikes on them but as long as other ME countries are willing to police their own territories I say we let them and not get involved with our own human treasure.

    If we play as nasty as they do then we will never win this because anything we gain militarily we will certainly lose politically around the world. ISIS will flame out and some other radical group will replace them....it's just the nature of how they operate over there. Just over a year ago everyone was screaming at Obama because he wasn't getting involved in the Syrain civil war and now we are siding with the very people that so many wanted us to fight against just over a year ago. The Middle East is far more complicated than the simplistic foreign policy of "killing them all" will afford. @Winston1 had a great post on the Middle East in another thread that really provided good insight as to the nuanced and complicated situation that makes up the Middle East......check it out some time.
     
    Tiger in NC, Feb 22, 2015
    #418
  9. el005639

    el005639 Founding Member

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    my statement was either we go all in our get out. halfway only leads to what we have. and if you think that we can't win militarily, then your ignoring history and I'm not speaking of the last 50 years. fanatics only respect strength.

    but there's not enough people who believe we should be that way, so I'm all for pulling back to an isolationist stance.
     
    el005639, Feb 22, 2015
    #419
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  10. LSUpride123

    LSUpride123 PureBlood

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    And that is the sad truth of it. To many people think you can place a few missiles, take out a few guys, and call it a victory.

    You would literally have to make a point that lasted for 100+ years.


    Its funny, in the US Liberals bitch and moan about gay rights, women, black rights, etc, yet seem to be perfectly fine with the way Muslims treat gays, women, minorities..........
     
    LSUpride123, Feb 22, 2015
    #420
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