Military So ISIS & the Middle East

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by LSUpride123, Aug 29, 2014.

  1. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    But one must understand . . . the same thing happened after 9/11 with Al Qaeda. Dozens of local terror groups in the Middle East started identifying with Al Qaeda even though they had no control or logistical support form the core organization. A few of them, like ISIS, have broken ranks with Al Qaeda, just as Al Qaeda had earlier broken ranks with Islamic Jihad, that it had once been a part of. Now the local terror groups are identifying with ISIS, but they still are not a monolithic and have radically different agendas in many cases.

    Libya has a hundred militias in operation right now with agendas ranging from "Arab Spring"-type democratic reform to bat shit crazy radical groups that don't get along. This Libyan faction is trying to get attention for recruiting locals with ISIS orange jumpsuits and beheadings. This stuff is like porn to radical islamists.

    Yes, they all love each other, but they aren't allied. They can be dealt with individually. African nations seem to have had enough and realize that the old colonial powers will no longer be stepping in to solve their problems. Five countries are mobilizing against Procol Harum and we should support them with logistics and intelligence.

    The two are not mutually exclusive. They may be nuttier than a squirrel turd, but their military adventures have been halted with airpower and they are desperate to change the game back in their favor. They are back to the guerrilla war they practiced in Iraq--IED's and ambushes. Only we aren't going to be suckered back into a knife fight on their turf on their terms. They made a lot of suicide attacks this week to get attention but it only deprived them of their bravest guys as usual. It's kind of desperate. They know their best hope is for the West to decide to pack up and go home and, as usual, they completely misread the western psyche with these brutal executions of prisoners. That may strike fear into the middle eastern heart, but it only hardens the hearts of European/Americans and fills them with a resolve to confront it.

    These ISIS fools are blundering worse than Saddam. They might have sat out there in the desert and established autonomy from the Shia running eastern Iraq, just as the Kurds did in the North. If they have behaved themselves they might have gotten huge support from the Saudis and Gulf States to oppose Iranian-backed Shia in Iraq. But no, they allowed themselves to get caught up in the radical islamist agenda of the old AQ in Iraq which broke with bin Ladin over the beheadings almost a decade ago. So they went to war with Syria with backing from the Turks. Then they overreached by invading Iraq and lost their Turkish logistical support. They also lost support from nearby Arab countries that could foresee the same kind of meddling in their countries. It takes a special kind of incompetence to maneuver yourself into a shooting war with the United States of America, but they have managed that, too.

    They are still landlocked with no allies, no major outside support, no economy to speak of, a restless population, and a army consisting of many foreigners working for money that is drying up. Now their military mobility has been taken away, their oil exports blocked, and 60 nations are working to deprive them of the rest of their support and weakening them. They have outraged not only the west, but also most of the middle east and even Russia and China are not getting involved with these characters.

    Suicide bomber vests and prisoner executions are reprehensible, but they are not going to take down any countries. It won't hold any territory. It just makes more enemies. In the overall sense they are pinprick attacks and show the desperation of ISIS to reverse the slide that they are on.

    Goddamn Egypt actually got mad enough to take military action, which probably surprised the shit out of them as much as it did us. When you give them 2 billion a year in military aid, you can say "Hey, we don't take that shit, why don't you take a few of those 225 shiny F-16's and show those guys who is boss . . . or maybe you really don't need so much modern airpower?"

    Appearance can often be deceiving. Now the Taliban is blowing up mosques in Pakistan instead of American bases in Afghanistan and the Pak military is hitting them hard at last. Many lamented the Muslim Brotherhood taking over Egypt and I said not to worry because we own the Egyptian military who is not about to give up power. So now we have a proxy for fighting the Islamists in Libya. And we are lining them up to deal with ISIS. Jordan had doubled down. The UAE had gotten back into the fight. Guerrilla wars are never short and sweet like The Gulf War. It takes time and cooperation from locals and mostly to takes patience.

    We win by being judicious as to where we apply military and economic power to hurt the bad guys and strengthen the good guys. The locals must have skin in the game, we have learned than we cannon impose our values on anybody, they have to earn their own freedoms. Until they do, we must stay out of their internal fights and pick and choose carefully who we support and oppose. We only take action when it is essential and when we can be decisive.
     
  2. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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    So was the death cult line appropriate?
     
  3. LSUMASTERMIND

    LSUMASTERMIND Founding Member

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  4. LSUpride123

    LSUpride123 PureBlood

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    Well the State Department said all those guys need are jobs..... If only they had jobs they would stop cutting heads off.
     
  5. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Well, that is a poor paraphase. But it is true that the recruiting base for islamist groups is unemployed young men in the middle east. They have to little to do and no prospects for jobs, money, marriage, so they go off to be a martyr. Many would be better lured by jobs and a future than by jihad, but it ain't there for them.
     
  6. LSUpride123

    LSUpride123 PureBlood

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    Im absolutely shocked you just defended that.

    Must the liberal side of you not willing to let go.
     
  7. LSUpride123

    LSUpride123 PureBlood

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    " Root causes"

    "lack of opportunity for jobs"

    So given the fact that every country has poor people and all the worlds poor do not lop off heads, do you know what the key difference is here?

    Radical Islam.
     
    shane0911 and Bengal B like this.
  8. LSUpride123

    LSUpride123 PureBlood

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    “Oh people, recently you have seen us on the hills of Al-Sham and Dabiq’s plain, chopping off the heads that have been carrying the cross for a long time, and today, we are on the south of Rome, on the land of Islam, Libya, sending another message,” a masked ISIS militant said in the video released Sunday.

    “All crusaders: Safety for you will be only wishes especially if you are fighting us all together. Therefore we will fight you all together. The sea you have hidden Sheikh Osama bin Laden’s body in, we swear to Allah we will mix it with your blood,” the militant said just before the 21 Christians, each wearing orange jump suits, were beheaded.
     
  9. LSUMASTERMIND

    LSUMASTERMIND Founding Member

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    read the article, i know you are smart, you can decipher and relate what the article is saying to what the state department is saying. the caliphate is a mix of socialism and fascism. aint life grand, a true caliphate is to have everything be free and provided for muslims. housing, food,etc, but under this fascist rule at the same time. so yes, poor people of Islam want a caliphate, its really an excuse not to work and to abuse women.
     
  10. LSUpride123

    LSUpride123 PureBlood

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    Lol. An excuse? They don't need to chop off heads to abuse women and not work. It's a part of their culture well in place before ISIS.

    The only excuses are those from the state departments attempt to downplay this.

    Islam is at the core of their actions.
     

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