Immigration laws are federal laws. That's a subjective assessment. What they did was legal and what Koresh did was illegal and those are objective facts. Things went wrong for both sides, but defiance of the law by Koresh is the culprit for this whole episode. And I'm saying you are wrong. The President and Attorney General are obviously involved in federal cases and properly so. The lawyer left federal service to represent Elian Gonzales. Hundreds, thousands. What is your point? I support action against armed terrorists, insurgents, and revolutionaries that break federal laws and defy multiple legal attempts to arrest them. It was a tear gas assault, no one expected a fire to break out, but chit happens in the big leagues. Why were children even there? Koresh was given opportunites to let the children leave. Instead they hid behind the skirts of their women and children, risking them by defying the law , and cowardly putting them at risk. Now I'm supposed to hold the law responsible for innocent loss of life instead of the immoral and insane David Koresh? Sorry, pal. Not me. I wish it hadn't happened too, but I'm not a bit confused about who to blame? You are so very wrong. Everyone has told you so and you just won't accept it.I don't know what else to say. Refresh my memory, what thread? I don't recall being all that upset about the Patriot Act, other than in how it might be misused. Aren't you against misuse of government power? The Patriot Act was controversial because it allowed covert, previously illegal surveillance of law-abiding US citizens. What on God's Green Earth does that have to do with the overt law enforcement of law-breaking US citizens which has always been legal? I have repeated commended Bush on his reaction after 9/11 right up to the point of losing focus and invading Iraq. I have never blamed Bush for things that Clinton did or didn't do before him. There is much to blame Bush for that is documented in the 9/11 Report including finding no time to meet with his own terrorism czar and the CIA bin ladin team until after 9/11. And then immediately ordering everyone to find evidence to pin it on Saddam. This is rehashing old territory and you really don;t want to go there, it will not help your case. What are you talking about?
i didnt say i like debt, i said it is better than taxes. debt can be relieved later by a growing economy, which is enabled by lower taxes. a balanced budget of tax and spend is terrible because growth is stunted by taxes as well as spending. smart spending, on the kinds of things that grow the economy, like infrastructure and education, but not things like health care and bailouts, these things are worth going into debt for, because, again, growth is the goal, not balanced budgets. if the economy grows, the pie will be larger in the future such thjat lower taxes will net adequate income for the government. the one most important thing to remember is that we should never raise taxes. never. not for a balanced budget, not for anything. if the deficit irritates you, ALWAYS cut spending. raising taxes punishes the economy, the very same economy you need to be strong enough in the future to pay down the debt.
ALWAYS and NEVER are the remarks of the extremists and of black and white thinking, not of pragmatism. SOMETIMES and BOTH usually make more sense.
extremism is good when the status quo is terrible. and in this case the status quo is increasingly large and invasive and destructive government. so taxes should never be raised from the point they are now. i assume this will be a cornerstone of the sabanfan capaign for the presidency, of which i am an ardent supporter, as director of RAfS (racist atheists for sabanfan).
Sabanfan if you are out there, i suggest you deny affiliation with your version of Reverend Wright if you want to run for office.
The point being that you claimed I was against federal agents but I have complained about the abuses of power in only 3 operations. That is false, most people who have studied this case know that the tear gas the ATF used was flammable. I have proved that in these links, pages that authorities admitted that as FACT. Again, I haven't excused what Koresh and his people did. Just PROVED that this was preventable if the ATF had agreed to meet with Koresh or pick him up when he left the compound. I'm not confused at all because I have studied this issue and posted links here that tells who is to blame. Both sides are to blame however I will say it once again. David Koresh called and wanted to meet with the authorities but the ATF REFUSED to meet with him. Instead they set up surveillance for 8 days spying on the dividians yet had no idea what David Koresh looked like. In the congressional report it states that the ATF wasn't interested in picking him up away from the compound. They were more interested in a dynamic entry. Generally if you have some kooks preaching the end of the world it isn't a good idea for the government to give them a reason to think the world is coming to an end. I would like to think my government would be smarter than that. No, I am right and everyone else is wrong here, I have proved it and brought links NO ONE else brought a SINGLE LINK. I thought you were and my memory is pretty good on this stuff. But maybe it was about how it might be misused? After all of this what do you think?:lol: They both can involve the misuse of government power abuse of rights. Imho Everyone's rights as Americans were violated by the government in the case of Ruby Ridge and Waco even the guilty. Even terrorists and killers in this country get a trial. Well I don't believe we know part or all of the truth from the 9/11 commission. You are never going to convince me that there is a whole lot of truth involved unless it doesn't include politics. I have posted links, articles and quotations here and nothing helped my case. People will only believe what they wish so what is the point anyway? I've had my fill here.
