You did blame Clinton, and now you're bringing up Obama for no reason. You have repeatedly dodged questions when backed into a corner. (See the Okie posts above). I am done with this thread.
I have blamed Clinton for Waco and Elian Gonzalez. and Bush 41 for Ruby Ridge. I never blamed or said Clinton was responsible for OKC. It was a response to Reds comment on current events if you don't like it tough ****. It had nothing to do with you or my response to you. Thats funny, Okie seemed happy with my latest response. If I can give you some advice, it would help if you go and read the last couple of pages. Dodge nothing, I was still responding to her last post. You people make it seem like I don't have the right to respond to the last posts. Good, I don't want to talk to you anyway because you obviously haven't read the whole thread enough to know what I have said or explained or you would have understood. You certainly didn't respond to my response to you. Go Figure!
I just don't think that the link constitutes "evidence" nor justifies defending Koresh, who was a nutjob that defied the law. You don't even realize that federal laws require federal officers to enforce? The President's former attorney. Government officials leave for private practice all the time. I read everything, your links don't always answer the questions that I'm asking you. You have to make the point, the link only supports you or it doesn't. You seem to only respect the rights of anti-government dissidents, but the federal agents and the FBI are power abusers, and now Democratic politicians are "rubbing people the wrong way" simply by walking by peaceful protestors. What has Obama done that can possibly compare to two bungled wars and an economic collapse? Nothing so far. My major criticism of Obama after one year is trying to do everything all at once instead of a pragmatic, incremental approach. That's not a failure, it's just a shortcoming. It is revealing that your anti-government diatribe ends up being anti-Clinton, Pelosi, and Obama. It is not government that you dislike, it is Democrats. You forgive republican governments. Or find a way to try and justify them.
if you dont like the wars, then you should oppose obama, as he has made no real effort to end them, and this is the one area in which obama is doing a good job, supporting the bush wars, warrantless wiretapping, that sort of thing. obama has worsened the economic calamity in the exact same way bush did, by spending, except much worse. obama is still the worst president we have ever had, because he is trying to grow the size of government more than anyone, even bush, who was not afraid to spend massive amounts.
Wrong again. Combat troops are leaving Iraq this summer and the rest follow in a year or so. Much Afghanistan effort is being redirected against Al Qaeda in Pakistan after years of neglect under Bush. Obama's deficit spending has not yet approached Bush's. The thinking world disagrees. Bush far exceeds any other president in incompetence. Obama's is at least identifying income to pay for his spending. Bush irresponsibly cut income while increasing spending. It is Bush who transferred so much of our debt to China by borrowing money to pay for his own Trillion dollar health plan and his Trillion-dollar wars.
I have not defended Koresh at all and have stated so in this thread many time, what I have objected to is the way this was handled in the many innocent children who lost their lives. What federal law did the relatives of Elian Gonzalez break? Maybe I am wrong here but I don't know. Again the ATF was responsible for Waco because of weapons charges, I understand that but what they did was wrong nut case or not. You missed my point totally? I was saying that the president, his lawyer and the attorney general while in office got involved in a domestic dispute between Elian Gonzalez's dad and his relatives. I pointed at that this has probably never happened before and I don't think they have any business in this dispute. I have made the point many times here. My point is Waco didn't have to end the way it did because the ATF could have contacted him, he agreed to meet with them. They could also have possibly picked him up while doing surveillance except wait, they didn't know what he looked like. They also could have picked him up once he left the compound and chose not to do it. Simply not true, the problem here is that you, Okie and everyone I have talked too act like this is either black or white. You guys put me into a category which simply isn't true. I have only described the actions of federal agents in three cases. How many operations have the ATF and FBI been involved in since Waco? I'm tired of answering questions here so let me ask you some. Do you support the governments actions in Ruby Ridge and Waco? What I am opposed to is the abuse of power of government such as Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc. Its amazing to me that you have no problems with this when you were so upset about the Patriot Act. The abuse of power here dwarfs the patriot act. Its funny that you didn't feel that way about Bush after all he wasn't the president for a year when 9-11 happened and the economy took a downturn, he hadn't had time to have his cabinets in place. Not at all true, I blamed Bush 41 for the abuse of power at Ruby Ridge then followed for the same reasons with Clinton. I don't support military equipment or torture technics on American citizens soil especially when it is unnecessary to start. I also have criticized Bush 41 many times, I have opposed bailouts under Bush and Obama. I am going after the party in power now because the Republicans aren't and I am against socialism Again I blame Bush 41 but if you are going to accuse me of what you do I say you are just the opposite. You attacked the Republicans and Bush all to hell and haven't said one word about Obama, Pelosi, Reid and what the Democrats have done. It is obvious to many that you don't hold the two parties to the same standard, not even close. The Democrats are now the party in power not the Republicans. I know what they have done is unconstitutional and I think it will be reversed. I object to them because they are doing things against the will of the people proven by the polls. I also object to no transparency like was promised and the special deals for certain states. It is also totally partisan, the most partisan administration ever from this Democrat congress to the person in the white house.
lets both hope he doesnt move the withdrawals too quickly. bush wouldnt. obama might. dont worry, health care just passed, and it damn sure will be destructive. i dont put much stock in the opinions of the masses. translation, obama loves taxes. milton friedman said that deficits are good in one sense, they encourage folks to stop spending. so obama is "identifying income", whigh means finding ways to ruin america by taxing it. this way he can spend more while terrifying us slightly less with huge deficits. the goal is not a balanced budget, the goal is less tax and less spend. spending is certainly bad in general, but if you are going to do it, you might as well borrow and grow the economy, instead of taxing and shrinking it.
I don't know what's so hard about connecting the dots here. Clinton hired Reno Reno ordered ATF, FBI etc to Waco Koresh and others died in Waco. McVeigh was pissed. McVeigh bombed the fed building in OKC Clinton's fault. Pretty simple.
I'm pretty sure Kevin Bacon can be linked to the bombing as well. Janet Reno played herself in a Saturday Night Live Skit with Will Ferrell, who was in the movie Stranger than Fiction with Maggie Gyllenhall, who was in the Dark Knight with Gary Oldman, who was in Murder in the First with Kevin Bacon. BAM!!!
