babies that hostage negotiators tried to get koresh to let go, but many were his own children born to little girls as young as 12 years old! the same children koresh let die by ordering his followers to set fire to the compound. the same koresh who's followers killed four batf agents in the initial raid. are you crying for the families of the agents who were murdered by the followers of a cult leader? didnt wait? the govt tried and tried to get koresh to let his children go. he refused. they were fortified with food, guns, and ammunition, and had already killed federal agents. you really think this was a situation that could be waited out? that he would sooner or later give up? this was a man that prophesized his own death, and seemed determined to self-fulfill that prophecy. he wouldnt let his children go because they were "different than other children". they refused through hostage negotiations to let the children go. sounds like a man who wanted to take them with him. torture tactics of blaring loud music to try to get the branch davidians worn down is objectionable to you? to a group that had murdered 4 law enforcement officers? to a group that allowed girls as young as possibly 10 to be "bedded" by their leader? and you are upset about loud music? of course innocent children died in waco. in a tragedy that could have been avoided if the cult living there had just followed the law, or at the very least, let children out of the compound during the seige. children basically held hostage by deranged and sick adults. yes, the govt made mistakes, but the davidians set the initial fires. and imo, the adults in that compound are responsible for the deaths of those innocent children, by holding them hostage. the children in okc were also murdered by a sick deranged psycho killer. neither koresh nor mcveigh had any respect for living beings, including children.
Who are you talking about? Mc Veigh? I don't think you have read any of my posts nor understand what I have said. I said that I didn't excuse Mc Veigh and I hope he burns in hell. I think everyone has forgotten the governments role in all of this which if you choose to do you are free to do so.
then do, tell us.... what WAS the governments role in all of this? what was the governments role in the murder of innocent men, women, and children in okc? do tell me. i am anxious to hear.
Waco Quote: The elements are almost the stuff of comedy. Federal agents get wind of a surreptitious arms hoard. They then set up surveillance of a compound using 40-year-old agents passing as college students. Suddenly a raid on the compound is imminent -- without a detailed plan on how to carry it out. A sketchy plan is then drawn up -- and ignored. Meanwhile, the targets of the raid know something is up, and their watchers know that the targets know but still think surprise is a possibility. That's where the comedy turns to tragedy. ATF has had a tradition of going in with guns blazing. (For example, the legendary Eliot Ness and his Prohibition-era ''Untouchables'' were not FBI men, but rather direct predecessors of today's ATF agents.) The Branch Davidian saga was true to tradition. Little consideration was given to arresting David Koresh outside his Mount Carmel compound. Indeed, after its preliminary investigations, the ATF began preparing for what would be the biggest raid in its history. All it lacked was a plan -- and the element of surprise. Waco Siege - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Quote: On July 30, 1992, ATF agents David Aguilera and Skinner visited the Davidian's gun dealer Henry McMahon, who tried to get them to talk with Koresh on the phone. Koresh offered to let ATF inspect the Davidians' weapons and paperwork and asked to speak with Aguilera, but Aguilera declined.[17][18] Sheriff Harwell told reporters regarding law enforcement talking with Koresh, "Just go out and talk to them, what's wrong with notifying them? The ATF Investigation Quote: McMahon then called Koresh, who offered to allow the agents to inspect for possible firearms violations. The agents declined the invitation.
Investigation into the activities of federal law enforcement agencies toward the Branch Davidians : thirteenth report / by the Committee on Government Reform and Oversight According to this document the surveillance only lasted for 8 days. It also talked about how a white male would jog by this house and NO agent knew what David Koresh looked like. How do you have surveillance and don't know who you are looking for? It talks about the FBI asking for military assistance, etc. Army reportedly declined to review FBI approach to Waco siege - August 31, 1999 Last week, the FBI revealed that military-style tear gas grenades -- which are flammable -- were fired at a bunker near the central compound where the government lay siege to the Branch Davidians for 51 days. The news contradicted prior claims that no pyrotechnic devices were used in the final assault on the compound. Despite the new admissions by the FBI, officials continue to insist the Davidians started the fire that engulfed the compound. It also was learned that three Army soldiers from the shadowy Special Operations unit known as the Delta Force were present during the FBI raid. The Defense Department said the soldiers were there in an "observer role" for the FBI and "did not perform law enforcement functions." The U.S. military is not legally authorized to participate in domestic law enforcement actions such as the one at Waco without a presidential waiver.
Waco Siege: Information from Answers.com Pick your link! http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3194083...Committee-on-Government-Reform-and-Oversight/ Quoteage 28 This investigation concluded that the ATF was predisposed to using aggressive military tactics in an attempt to serve the arrest and search warrant The ATF deliberately chose not to arrest Koresh outside the compound and instead chose to use a dynamic approach. The bias towards this approach may be explained from the culture within ATF. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again what I am saying is that this could have ended quite differently, the ATF intentionally did this so it wasn't just a screw up either. I had no idea just how badly the abuse of power was in this case, ATF should have been abolished. I haven't excused what the kooks have said or done but I have proved from these links that the government is responsible for this turning out like it did. If you want to pick up Koresh and his followers, they could have had better surveillance or picked him up when he left the compound, ATF intentionally chose not to do it based on the Committee on Government Reform and Oversight report. Could have saved innocent lives mainly the children.
