all very good points. Very good indeed. I have a question to analyze further Petey's coaching ability. I assume you watch their games closely since you are up on all their stats. How is Pete on clock management? How about his OC's and the ability to call a run play to set up a field goal? Has he failed miserably enough to make national headlines for a week? Now I'm sure Petey has been outcoached a few times. His ex OC did a great job agaisnt him. ALL coaches have their good and bad days. Les's screw ups on the clock come every 3-4 games every year. His play calling or his OC's play calling suck DAILY. It is a pattern. also most everyone agrees that the SEc is the strongest conference. all the sports journalists even agree there. but outside of THIS board which hates USC, how many actual REAL football journalists or coaches agree that the Pac 10 is weak? I think when you move past the SEC things even up pretty quickly. Who is draggin hind tit? the ACC the big ten or the pac 10? to be fair USC has a great football history even before Pete came along the school recruits its self. Your theory is good when analyzed on the surface and here on TF, but in the real world where people can SEE a MAN coach and call plays on the sidelines, its full of holes. Besides, who ever said Pete Carrol was a GREAT coach anyway? maybe he just recruits well and they win in spite of him? maybe he isnt any better than Miles just in a different way? He may have a whole different set of problems than Miles..... I am not so sure id trade him for Miles. This may seem contradictory to what i just said but there is always the possiblity Miles improves. and Pete Carrol is obviously happy where he is.
No one can disagree that the playcalling has been shyt. The blame falls on CLM for allowing it. This is true. But what if it is because they wanted to hold JJ's hand? Make him confident. If that's the case, I can deal with it. If not, then CLM has to bring in a new OC, which may make next season more difficult for Tiger fans. These last two years have had a lot of change and no stability with coaches coming and going. But we'll just have to wait and see, I reckon.
Three questions all referring to the same game. Miles and everyone else have acknowledged his fault. Might be time for you to move on. Petey had more than his share of bad days this year. And what of losing to teams every year when they are heavily favored? Effectively knocking them out of the BCS every year since, what 2004?? For Pete's sakehihi, even Arizona beat them this year! Also includes a 55-21 ass raping by Stanford... Sure about that? Care to document the every 3-4 game pattern of screw ups for the last five years? How did Miles clock management work the following week vs Arkansas? We not talking about that one? Really? The polls(sports writers) and computers don't support your assertion over the last several years. You can't have it both ways. Is the SEC tougher than the PAC-10 or not? And has it been these past several years that USC has missed the NC? Illuminate us. All the same sports writers and pollsters you have been talking about. Including posters here. Pete is a great coach and I don't think you can disprove that. Point is he makes mistakes and does not WIN IT ALL every year. And sometimes, his teams even look......bad. You can focus on Pete and dismiss all of this if you want but it's quite simple really. Pick another coach... 1) Does Stoops get run out of town for losing every BCS bowl since 2003? Does he not have mass talent? 2) What about Texas and Mack Brown? Did you see Brown not call a timeout and a 4-yr starting, Heisman candidate QB almost let the clock run out on him and lose a chance at the NC?? 3) What about Meyer? How is the world does he have Tebow, who won the Heisman, and lose 4 games(including bowl to a crap Michigan team) in 2007? Tebow was a sophomore but played extensively in nearly every game as a freshman. Or how about this year, returning the entire two deep defense, and having offensive weapons out the ass?? You say my argument is full of holes, but I didn't see you point one out.
Les's clock management skills are well documented, its a waste of my time to point them out to you. if you cant acknowledge them then well. ok... we wont go there, we just disagree.... It's in the advocate, times picayune, ESpn so on and so forth. it is what it is. there are no articles about Pete's coaching screw ups or clock management or lack there of skills, that I've seen. I am sure he has had his share of blunders though, we are all human. Move on? I'm not on the coaching staff friend. the "bad" days petey has could be analyzed also, they may not have anything to do with clock management or lack of player development. Although it could very well be poor play calling. I suppose youd have to look at each game USC played. Regardless of what Pete did or how it was done, it still doesnt change the fact that Mile's record indicates a poor history of clock management. I will concede to you that Mile's clock management was MUCH better for the Arky Game. maybe he is over the issue, I dont know but regardless it was there. Let's hope in one game he has righted the ship. His lack of game day management and player development are suspect also. this could be the OC, time will tell. but he has ultimate responsibility. and the polls sports writers DO support the Pac 10 as you said so yourself they put USC up there every year and when a team other than USC does well like Oregon they rise as well as a team in any other conference. So I dont have anything both ways. In fact it isnt mine to have it IS what it IS. Also re-read my post, I said that most sports "people" in the business consider the SEc on top, with the Big 12 somewhere behind that.....after that it gets foggy. All coaches make mistakes, Meyer, brown, Saban, all of them. I think when you look at Miles the issues still are this, did he improve? Are the mistakes a pattern that will change or stay? How is he managing his staff? His OC? Did he give his players his best? If he is happy with his performance as a coach for LSU then I am good with it. But I dont think he is and he is WELL paid to perform. Regardless of what Petey did. You can compare two programs, unfortunately it isnt always the coaches that have the issue. A QB can go down and ruin a season, etc... look at the issues individually, beyond that basic argument I have nothing for you. if you want to see it like you do then rave on friend. Unfortunately, no coach is beyond analyzing. When you lose a couple like we did in 07 but still win a title its OK, people wink at the mistakes and call you a "gambler" Conversely, when you win all of them but still dont win a title ( boise State ) you were cheated and the coach is magic, no respect for the program itself and the schedule.. But when you lose a few "ugly" and win nothing but still have a good record, you're fair game. also you say illuminate us, who is US? are you more than one person? Do you think by saying "us" it lends some extra merit in your post? I am sorry if I dont get that, lots of people do it to make themselves sound credible. Have heard it at work a few times. if people agree with you and I'm sure some do, let them speak up, as they often do. at least until they elect you as their spokesman. agreed? also Tebow didnt play extensively his freshman year, he did play I guess it depends on your definition of exstensively. As a final note, I notice this condesending attitude with SD man. why? have a great day mr. dude.
Excellent post. How convenient that it is completely ignored by the other side of the fence. I guess it makes entirely too much sense.:thumb:
I think it was tongue in cheek. Look on the bright side. Be thankful that Miles decided to be a football coach instead of and air lines pilot. His day dreaming causes dusappointment but does not cost lives.
I didn't claim Miles had no issues with clock management. You claimed it was every 3-4 games for the last 5 years and I asked for documentation. You are leaning on what happened as a result of the Ole MS game. Not quite the same thing. It's an exaggerated claim on your part, and that's that. I won't argue with that. He is ultimately in charge and it falls on him as head coach to correct deficiencies. However most people lay it all at his feet as if Miles is directly responsible for these failures in every incident. I don't believe that is the case. No, I said the sports writers support USC, not the Pac-10. Two different things. If they had respected the PAC-10, a single loss to a PAC-10 team would not keep USC out of the NC every year. But it does. And contradicted it in the same sentence. Regardless, the Pac-10's weakness was originally pointed out to show the insane premise that if you lose to an inferior team, almost every year, and get knocked out of your goals, your coach sucks ass and should pack his bags. Sort of like many have screamed for about Miles. Did Pete "improve" this year? Or Stoops? The point is that a sports/coaching career is cyclical, not linear. We all like to believe it different but it's not that way. Look at Brett Favre this year. Would you say that he "improved" this year? Would you have predicted his performance 3 years ago, or even one year ago? He stated that he did not after Ol MS. Being put in the exact same position the following week, and coming out on top, tells me Miles adjusted quite well. Predictably, the people that screamed for his head after Ole MS were strangely silent after Arkansas. It must have been all that turkey. :yelwink2: There is no rave here. You make my point for me. When comparing programs, other coaches get let off the hook for "individual issues". Miles gets painted with one stroke and it doesn't matter what the "individual issues" are. It is a double standard. Miles is held to one by our fans, while coaches like Carroll, Stoops, Meyer, and especially Saban are held to another. How impressive was Saban's loss to Utah last year, after going undefeated in the regular season? What's the "individual issue" there? Can anyone say that was not Saban's loss? Why isn't Saban skewered for that? Does it make Saban a horrible coach? Of course not. But insert Miles and you get a different result. Plenty of people have agreed with me and spoken up in this very thread. You can ignore them, but I will edit my statement to "illuminate me". It doesn't matter. You still have not done it. Tim Tebow played in 14 games his freshman season, and was brought in situational plays only, not to start or win the game. He passed 33 times and rushed 89 times. Yeah, I will go with my definition of extensive. I am still waiting on you to punch holes in my argument. My point was to look at other programs that compare favorably in recruiting, record, etc, and how are those coaches treated when those teams come up short? Which I have shown that they all do, nearly every year. If the hole that you claim exists in my argument is that you refuse to compare programs and how coaches are treated elsewhere to establish a baseline for how we treat Miles and expectations for LSU, then I guess you accomplished your purpose.
Mile's issues with clock management go back further than the Ole Miss game. There was an article just recently in the Picyune about it. If you don't know that or choose to ignore it then I cant point it out to you. It is well documented. read the news man. why would I waste my time schooling someone who obviously doesnt want to see the truth when i can easily just have you do it? look it up yourself. Most everyone here saw the games it is a pretty well known issue with Miles, and YES we ALL hope its gone now. NO ONE more so than myself. Now you say i contradict myself but look at YOU! He is in charge and it falls on him but dont lay it all at his feet? which is it? He IS responsible, his paycheck says so, regardless of what Urban meyer's fans require of him. Can he make things right? sure, can he see the problem is staff maybe and replace them? sure... what's hard about this? I think last time I checked USC was in the pac 10? did they change last night? Pretty sure that the rankings are for teams not conferences, so it depends on WHICH pac 10 team they lose to. How well would the polls respect LSU if we lost to Vandy? its the SEC??? I think there is a fine line here, we both agree the pac 10 isnt nearly in the same league as the SEC..... So miles gets a pass for coaching in the SEC ... there you go. Well I suppose that would be up to the AD @ USC. i dont have a dog in that hunt. How and why USC fans call for peteys head is non of my concern I would imagine there are plenty of people who dont like him @ USC. maybe he isnt getting a pass after all. There is always going to be people at every school that call for the coaches head. Justly or Unjustly.... it happens. it can be either, there is no guarantee it is linear going up it could be steady downhill ( or up ) There is no "law of pyhsics" that says a coaches career follows a sine wave or a line. it is what it is. and each and every year fans gather around tail gates and internet forums and form opinions, some even call for the coaches head OMG! yes as unlikely as it would seem this happens. You know some people even compare coaches from other teams. Improving upon a mistake that is made often enough for all to see is just a natural desire among professional individuals. Like I said, go ask Miles if he thought his coaching was up to snuff this year and if he is happy with it then I am. We can only see the results on the field and from the results I'd say you are correct. Let's hope the improvment continues. yes the world is out to get "Miles" especially LSu fans. I dont suppose it occured to you that the reason you notice it so much with Miles is because you arent a fan of other schools? Did you notice how they were roasting Bobby Bowden? just saying... Ignore them? so what now you can tell who's posts I read based on who i respond to? maybe I just singled out your post to respond to. regardless I didnt see a vote electing you a spokesman, so it is as I thought. what about the attitude towards Sd man did you skip over that question? whatever you want to call it be my guest. It's subjective. You get into this crap dont you? LOL@ refuse. Like I was taking medicine or something. there is nothing to refuse, you dont want to see my point. I understand yours. You think Miles is taking un necessary heat from fans. AND every other coach gets a pass. The old poor pitiful me..................... the world is agaisnt me routine. Ok if you say so. the world is just mean like that i guess. Other teams may indeed come up short due to poor coaching but in each and every example it might not be the case. It could be an injury or whatever. I doubt Miles is held to any higher standard than Pete Carrol. They roasted Miles in the media for the Ole Miss game simply because it was so unbelievable, it made headlines. Headlines sell news copy. If pete or saban had done it they woulda blasted them too. The media is a shark pack they dont care who it is that goes down. later JS
"They roasted Miles in the media for the Ole Miss game simply because it was so unbelievable, it made headlines. Headlines sell news copy. If pete or saban had done it they woulda blasted them too. The media is a shark pack they dont care who it is that goes down. later JS" And Miles fixed it the very next week with FLYING COLORS! Is Miles the best coach? No, but by what standards would you say someone is the best coach in CFB. Saban, Myer, Pete all of them have bad years and have COACHING LET DOWNS. I.E BAMA-Utah (I dont care what you say about having a 12-2 season, it is a coaching FAILURE to get blown out in a bowl.) I.E UF-Bama game ( #1 D in UF and give up over 420yrds with 12min left in the 4th quater?) I.E. USC getting butt stomped by STANFORD! Point is, no coach in CFB is the best. Yes, at times some coaches shine, but all have a bad year (or more). With anything, someone will always be better than you on any given day. Miles is a good coach for LSU and he has shown humility and the ability to learn from his mistakes.
You keep claiming I don't know that Miles has had issues with clock management. That is untrue. I have acknowledged this and you ignore it. I continue to ask you to back up your claim of this being a pattern of every 3-4 games for the last 5 years. You continue to ignore your own statements. Well, actually it's both, and not a contradiction at all. Miles is ultimately responsible as is the head coach at every university. My point is, you don't list "individual issues" for Miles, while you do for other coaches. All that is beside the point. You fail to answer your own contradiction by talking about something else. Is the PAC-10 considered by anyone to have been a tough haul for USC the last several years? The answer is no. And yet, USC still stumbles, falls out of the NC, and Pete is not run out of town for it. A double standard proven again. I don't really know what you are talking about here. Meyer gets a chance to right his ship and is not called a buffoon, but Miles is treated that way? You can't see how Miles is treated differently yet? Really? Shall I list all of their losses to unranked, unfavored teams over the years? Are you contending that Washington,Stanford and Arizona were good teams? USC certainly didn't....until they lost to them. DId I miss something? We lost to Vanderbilt too??? But he doesn't. That's really the point. Most people here don't give a flying crap about logic or rational thought. They just want LSU to win every game, by 50, march to the SECC, destroy that team, and cruise into the NC, and destroy them. When we don't do any or all of those things, then Miles is treated like a buffoon that needs to pack his bags. There are now posters demeaning our 2007 NC. I don't point fingers at you, but it is happening, and more often. It's a unachievable double standard. You can cruise msg boards of other schools. I don't suggest you do this because you care. The point was to show a double standard. You won't find that kind of crap going on at other championship schools. You find it at schools like Arkansas, Auburn, Ole MS, etc. Why don't LSU fans cut Miles the same slack as Stoops, Saban, Meyer, or Carroll? His results are certainly comparable. Being critical is completely different from what this board has turned into. Bobby Bowden is not two years removed from a NC. It's been quite a stretch actually. I notice that some other fan bases don't do this to their coaches because I read other msg boards, and I talk to other fans. There were plenty of fans calling for Miles head after being 4-0 this year. Again, the point is the double standard. People have agreed with me and responded so. You claimed nobody had, thus I should not say "illuminate us". If you read other posters agreeing with me, than what's the problem? The point being that Tebow was not inexperienced when he started as a sophomore and they proceeded to lose 4 games. Did he suddenly get good the next year when he won the Heisman and suck as a sophomore? No, but he was still young(just like JJ and Lee) and it played some part in their record. Florida fans understood that, and did not call for Meyer's head because he followed his NC with a 4 loss season. Miles did not get that consideration last year. Again, a double standard. I have not seen you make one yet. I have proven a double standard. Many LSU fans have a completely unrealistic expectation of their team and their coach. It causes them to speak and respond emotionally instead of logically. Some is to be expected. Quite a bit is not. IMO it just shows ignorance. You mean like losing Richard Murphy, Charles Scott, and Keiland Williams?? I have proved he is. Still back to that one game? Is that really all ya got? Are they roasting Brown and McCoy? It's been mentioned a few times, but ultimately they are getting a pass. Double standard.
