We need to get rid of Crowton, period. I don't think JJ is a natural pocket passer. I bet he wasn't in high school. So I have 3 questions 1. why hasn't he been coached to become a pocket passer? Coaching the QB's happens to be Crowton's job and game after game we see no improvement in JJ's pocket presence. I don't want to hear that he is young. He has had plenty of time and game experience to at least show improvement. 2. if for some reason they just can't make JJ a pocket passer then why haven't we adapted the offense & play calling to do what he does best? Again Crowton. 3. if we are going to insist that LSU is a pro style pocket passing team then why in hell did we recruit Shep and also promise him that he would be a QB at LSU instead of a Percy Harvin type? This one would be more on Miles but I would think that Crowton would have some influence on this. With how important the QB is to the execution and overall flow of the offense, without having one who can execute the offense being used will have dire consequences like 107th out of 120.
In my opinion the bottom line is that our QB coach sucks and should be fired. We can't afford to fire Miles, and maybe we don't even need to fire Crowton. Maybe we just need a strong QB coach. And a line coach. And a receiver coach. But I don't mind firing the OC who's overseeing one of the worst offenses in 1a.
How can any quarterback be successful without a running game or any CONSISTENT protection from his O-Line? Jefferson was awesome in the second half. Some of the darts he threw were impressive. Jefferson is a pocket passer, that does not mean he should never run, especially when the pocket is breaking down in 2.5 seconds. The coaches keep trying to make him an option QB, which he is not. I think JJ is good, and will be great. I do not think he should shoulder any of the blame of the offensive woes this year. We recruited Shep because he was a great high-school player and will be a great player at LSU. If we would have "let him go" to some other school because he does not match our current scheme tigerland would have gone into meltdown.
arizonafan Jefferson was mostly a pocket passer in HS. His style works in HS but doesn't work so well at higher levels of competition. I loved Steve Young's comments about Vince Young last week before Monday Night Football... "eventually he is going to have to learn to sit in the pocket and throw the ball where it needs to be with pressure on him" (paraphrased by me) A pure option threat is not going to work in the SEC, from time to time you need someone that is able to sit back there under the gun and deliver the ball. The problem is with Jefferson, he isn't an option or running QB and he lacks the throwing mechanics/throwing stance to ever be a real good pocket passer. A new OC can help put him or whoever is back there in a better position to succeed but he has limitations just like all of us do... simple put unless you can change his DNA... it's going to be spotty at best. The thing is... if he had instinct for the game he actually could be a decent college QB with the right OC but as is... I don't see it happening. Good things: - Height - Some arm strength when given plenty of space and time, he has too put his whole body into though - Protects the ball - Plays hard Bad things: - Throwing mechanics are way too slow - Throwing stance way too wide - Unable to throw the ball when a defender is withing 5 feet of him. - Panics - Terrible at the option - No instinct and results in holding the ball - Doesn't step up in the pocket and when he does he panics and doesn't look up field - Doesn't go through progressions, if the primary target is covered... that's it panic time - Drops too far into the pocket. Some of that can be corrected, some can't. I would say he is smart on one hand, he knows he can't make the throws and doesn't try to... so in turn he takes sacks and no gain plays. Whether that is good or bad is a matter of opinion I would imagine. A new OC can help put him in a position to be more successful but at the end of the day he is going to be spotty. iMHO
Ding. :thumb: I haven't jumped into this fray up to this point, really b/c I was sitting back to watch what would happen in the last two, perhaps most meaningful and most bellweather games for 2009... Ole Miss and Arkansas. Afterall, despite all of the chatter on the boards, these were the teams that we needed to measure ourselves against this season. We went 1-1, and yes, we could have gone 2-0 fairly easily. But considering the great Saban himself has never been able to handily beat Arkansas, and lost to them a few times himself, I'm very relieved to get the win last night. With a 9-3 season, after going 7-5 last year, do any of you really think that GC is gone, when we have a SO QB and a relatively inexperienced O-Line? Yes, Miles and Crowton messed up last week. They clearly should have gotten blame, but that happens in sports, and they come back and they do better this game. It's probably too close for comfort for most "board fans", but truthfully go back to how this series has gone with Arkansas, and the fact that they were on a 4 game winning streak, playing well, and what was on the line, and I'm happy we're 9-3 and won (that is afterall, what I predicted we'd go at the beginning of the season :yelwink2. But, to the point of this thread. Before you flame GC b/c that's the scapegoat mentality, you go back and watch some of JJ in the pocket. My honest assessment is that he's young, and he's tentative. He's not the best at recognizing where his receivers are, downchecking quickly and making decisions quickly. That may be harsh, but true. And, I'm not necessarily a JJ hater, b/c truthfully, I'm not sure what else we have there... JLee is not the answer, and I think you cannot underestimate Miles/GC's need to recruit the QB with acumen. Not to say that GC is not to blame, certainly certain calls and philosophies this season, run vs. pass, option etc., he'd like to have back. But, I think to compare JJ to Matt Mauck or Matt Flynn, who were 5th year guys, is still hard to do. Also, say what you will about GC, but his offense is complicated. He'd like to spread the field with an option QB who can run, throw and run the arsenal of weapons. JJ has the physical tools, but honestly, his release isn't super quick, his decision needs to be much faster and he's not yet 100% comfortable. Does this mean you fire the OC, or give your QB time to develop? With the win, and a potential 10 win season (again, and only the 6th 10 win season in over 20+ years?), I find it hard to say fire the OC. That's just me, probably, but I don't necessarily see Alleva and Miles making that move. More subtle moves perhaps are going to be required, with Porter and potentially McCarthy gone. I also think that Miles and Crowton need to develop an offensive identity going into 2010. But, I think folks look at this team in balance, and they IMPROVED by 2 wins, and you say to yourself, with the O-Line, QB, Sheppard, and others getting more time with GC, 2010 is the year you judge GC. If they falter again, then yes, there are systemic issues. :geauxtige:geauxtige:geauxtige
I'm sorry, but calling him horribly inaccurate is horribly inaccurate. Look, you don't hit over a 64% completion rate in seven games during the season if you're horribly inaccurate. Also, he never had a game under 50% this year. One big positive for me is that Jefferson usually puts the ball in a place where the receiver can make a play on it even if he's having trouble placing the ball where he wants to from time to time. His thing is that he usually starts off the game with those nervous high throws before settling down. He definitely has that issue. But overall, he throws balls that are highly catchable. Put it this way, if he was as inaccurate as Mallett was for much of the game for Arkansas last night, we would have lost. And Mallett has a rocket out of this world...but he threw every ball like a maniac and on a number of plays gave Arkansas receivers no chance. The guy has a huge upside when he's on. I totally agree about him not running the option well (why do they insist on running it???). I also agree that his biggest issue is that he takes too long to decide to throw the ball and this leads to too many sacks and throws not being as timely as they could be for receivers. That internal clock is still not there and it needs to be. But the guy still makes big plays with his feet (see Georgia, Auburn and last night's game), doesn't turn the ball over much, is very tough, is generally accurate and basically gives us a fair chance in every game. The only game I felt we didn't have that good of a chance in was Florida because of the refusal to take risks by the coaching staff and by JJ. But even that one was up for grabs late into the 4th. I'm with you that at times I think he has regressed. But I thought he showed a lot of improvement in that stretch when we played Auburn, Tulane and Bama. Of course, he got hurt in the Bama game, but he was playing well up until he got hurt and with him and Scott I think we could have pulled it out. Against Ole Miss he was still obviously injured and getting killed by the D's blitzing on just about every play. My only big issue with him in that one was taking the sack at the worst time. That was bad. The spike wasn't my favorite either () but our coaches take that one. Against Arkansas he was a mixed bag, but he's still not 100% and he did real good on that last drive after taking another bad sack (although our O-line has SUCKED so it's not all on him). He had a couple of nice TDs and finished with one more than Arkansas Jesus (Mallett). A consistent O-line and running game would really help him out so it's not totally fair to judge him without that. He has GOT to improve the sack and timing issue, but I'll take the 9 wins we got out of this year any day. If he was light years away from being decent, I doubt we would have ended up 3rd in the SEC. Because our rushing offense is much further away from the elite than our passing offense. The offensive playcalling was also terrible for the La. Tech game and I felt like it made J. Lee's situation worse and it put the game in jeopardy with the six straight passes. Also, the stubborness to keep running option-type plays with a QB who is not 100% and no real backup is an issue for me. They've just continued to do things that haven't really worked all season when it's extremely apparent that they shouldn't be doing them. Add to that the fact that Russell Shepard's never had more than six touches in a game even though he averaged over 6 yards per touch and I have an issue. No doubt, he needs to bulk up a little, but he still had the longest play we've had in three years in that Auburn game. The failure to do more things with this guy and get him the experience he needs to take it to that other level has been very bad in my opinion. And to be honest, they failed to really get RR in the mix as much as he should have been. I'm not saying he needed huge numbers, but more than 10 catches on the whole season for the #1 WR recruit in the nation.
I look at your stats, which to me are pretty compelling, and I also look at LSU-SIU's post about JJ's short comings, and I think the hard part of this, is at the end of the day, you've got a young man in JJ that wanted to come to LSU and was recruited to LSU. We aren't pro scouts, and yet we dissect the game and blast our players on the board. It's a little unfair, for sure, but within our right--we just need to temper the world is coming to an end attitude. Jefferson's been at this for a season and a few games, as a 19 year old kid. Imagine what Matt Flynn or Matt Mauck would have looked like on the field as a sophomore. Scary... or perhaps not that different than Jarrett Lee? :shock: I actually think that Jefferson has the makings of a decent QB, he's got size, relatively good mobility and he has decent arm strength--he's also clearly got courage and moxy. What he hasn't developed is more comfort making quick decisions and getting the ball out quicker with more accuracy. When I look at the tape, I actually think that he HAS improved as an option runner. He made mostly correct reads on the option last night, and Holliday and Ridley looked more effective running it--I think losing Murphy was actually a big blow in the scheme of things. We need RS or a running back with speed and elusiveness on the end of that pitch. You also have to consider this--I'm sure JJ's mantra at the beginning of the season was be the ANTI-LEE, i.e., "at all costs, do not turnover the ball." So, it's no surprise that he's holding on to the ball and taking sacks. I think if I'm JJ and GC, I'm continuing to work on mechanics and reads, watching tape, etc., developing more confidence this offseason. The thing that DOES irk me a little bit, despite all of Mile's recruiting kudos, is his recruitment of linemen. Look say what you want about Saban, but he has a formula. Have a game based upon dominant lines on both sides of the ball, have a "serviceable" quarterback that won't make mistakes and have RBs that can run behind a huge O-Line. LSU has got to get more help on the lines, and that is one area where all of the skill players in the world, and offensive schemes, won't necessarily help you. In the SEC, you need to be rugged up front and that usually separates the men from the boys. I think having the smaller "quicker" O-linemen can only get you so far in the SEC--may be great in the Pac10 or WAC. The running statistic is telling. Between this year and next, I'll be looking for lineman coaching or growing (preferably both). Perhaps someone with a lot of time on the site could chart the average height/weight on the LSU lines during the Saban era (taking into account that much of the Miles era was played with Saban recruits) vs. the Miles era. Perhaps I'm just perceiving this. :lol:
Lots of talk about coaches, and maybe Crowton bears some blame. Lots of stats being thrown around, and there's some wisdom in those numbers. But, for me, Jefferson isn't passing the eyeball test in game play. His completions are sporadic and generally short passes. He has great difficulty completing passes past 15-20 yards. He takes FOREVER to see the receiver getting open. He takes A LOT of sacks. (The OL has actually given JJ decent protection all year). Can LSU win with Jefferson's play? Clearly yes. Maybe even win the SEC and beyond. Is Jefferson better than the other QBs on LSU's roster? Probably. We'll see if Chris Garrett gets a serious look/gives him competition in the Spring/Fall run up to next year. The questions about Jefferson/Lee have been answered in my mind. Lee would have to perform the world's greatest turnaround at this point, and I just don't see it. Anyway, I just don't see Jefferson being able to be a vertical passing threat unless he undergoes some very serious changes in the off-season.
Like I posted earlier you can spin stats any way you like. I also posted that his yards per comp was #9 among SEC QB's 7.2 yds per in a down year for QB's in the SEC. Short safe high percentage passes that even poor QB's should be able to complete. I'm not anti JJ, I like him and think he has worlds of potential. However when you stop looking at one or two stats and look at the whole picture, he is a below average SEC QB at this point in his career. I hope we bring in a real QB coach and he wins the Heisman next season.
