Yet, almost all ex SOF find work if they want it. They have been trained in a broad range of skills that employers are looking for. Not just the martial skills. They are far more than silverback gorillas that grunt and break things. SEALs and Green Berets especially have high IQs and extensive schooling.
Evidence? Your politics are showing. The diary has been authenticated and published online. And with your concern about families of fallen heroes, you might find the statement of Steven's father interesting. “Chris was not willing to be the kind of diplomat who would strut around in fortified compounds. He amazed and impressed the Libyans by walking the streets with the lightest of escorts, sitting in sidewalk cafes, chatting with passers-by. There was a risk to being accessible. He knew it, and he accepted it.” “What Chris never would have accepted was the idea that his death would be used for political purposes. There were security shortcomings, no doubt. Both internal and outside investigations have identified and publicly disclosed them. Steps are being taken to prevent their reoccurrence.” “So rather than engage in endless recriminations, his family is working to continue building the bridges he so successfully began.” All Presidents are buffered by many levels of management. No leader with that much responsibility can be aware of every little security issue around the planet. We have thousands of diplomatic and military facilities overseas.
Evidence? Seriously, where did the gorillas, grunt, and breakage nonsense come from? I never said anything even remotely close to that. In fact, the men I'm talking about are the stealthiest mofuggers to ever walk the Earth. Stealthy, sometimes brutal, and perhaps psychologically numbed to perform without failure. The absolute only evidence of failure is death. Many of these men have spent years in a very different environment, performing under extreme circumstances, and have ingrained in themselves a survivalist mentality. When they come home, the adjustment is significant. The brain is easily trained and not so easily untrained. Do you really think it's easy to go from that life to a 9-5 corporate stiff type job? You walk into the office every day and perhaps all you can think about is how much your co-workers DON'T know about what you did and that many would/could be repulsed by your activity even though the gov't trained and paid you to do it. "Studies show that between 36.9 and 50.2 percent of OEF and OIF veterans in the VA healthcare system have received a mental disorder diagnosis, such as PTSD or depression". Being on high alert for years will cause a person to be aggravated, unable to sleep, be overly suspicious, unable to operate in any normal way. And all that won't be solved with a spiffy resume. Like I said earlier, companies like Trident and Blackwater, etc hire ex-SpecOps guys and they pay a ton of money. The risk is high, the long-term implications are just now bearing out, and most absolutely cannot discuss their work with anyone. Hell, most if not all, have another identity and if captured, they will be denied by the US gov't, declared rogue warriors, and they have a permanent way "out". I'm sure there are some operators who return and fit in just fine with no problems. However, I think the majority have mild to severe issues and they aren't being taken care of. This is a gov't by and for the people....for me that means I have some responsibility to help.
Evidence or lack thereof doesn't always indicate the truth. In consideration of what I suggested earlier about false "testimony", consider what studies have long showed about suggestion. "Several studies have been conducted on human memory and on subjects’ propensity to remember erroneously events and details that did not occur. Elizabeth Loftus performed experiments in the mid-seventies demonstrating the effect of a third party’s introducing false facts into memory.4 Subjects were shown a slide of a car at an intersection with either a yield sign or a stop sign. Experimenters asked participants questions, falsely introducing the term "stop sign" into the question instead of referring to the yield sign participants had actually seen. Similarly, experimenters falsely substituted the term "yield sign" in questions directed to participants who had actually seen the stop sign slide. The results indicated that subjects remembered seeing the false image. In the initial part of the experiment, subjects also viewed a slide showing a car accident. Some subjects were later asked how fast the cars were traveling when they "hit" each other, others were asked how fast the cars were traveling when they "smashed" into each other. Those subjects questioned using the word "smashed" were more likely to report having seen broken glass in the original slide. The introduction of false cues altered participants’ memories." Politics are not involved for me. I want the truth but have settled on the idea that it won't be completely revealed. I still don't buy that the diary was found in it's original form or that it was just "found" rather than "placed". But on that note of the diary....consider this take on Benghazi... "The US State Department should have taken proper precautions, before the attack ever happened, to ensure that American forces were prepared to respond on the anniversary of 9/11. There is also the much-denied but ever-present issue of the Special Operations missions inside Libya in the run up to the attack. At this point, there can be no doubt. JSOC has run a fairly extensive targeted killing program inside Libya. In Eastern Libya, particularly, which is under militia control, all sorts of Gaddafi associates have been dropping dead, along with others who may be involved in unseemly activities. Interestingly, the tactics used in these assassinations are very similar to those used by JSOC during some of the worst days of the insurgency in Iraq. History Repeats Itself In 1998, the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya was attacked by a truck laden with explosives. Minutes later, the U.S. Embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, was hit with another massive truck bomb. The dual attacks would kill 224 people, including 12 Americans. The coordinated attack would put terror mastermind Osama Bin Laden’s name on the map. On August 12th, 1998, Patrick Kennedy, then serving as the Assistant Secretary for Administration, gave a formal briefing to reporters. With me is Patrick Kennedy, Assistant Secretary for Administration, having relinquished his acting capacity in Diplomatic Security, but nevertheless an authoritative spokesman on issues related to security and the recent bombings in East Africa. –State Department Spokesman, James Foley The Accountability Review Board for the 1998 bombings points out that Ambassador Bushnell had repeatedly requested increased security measures, specifically stand-off capability for potential terrorist bombings. The requests were denied, explained in a letter from Under Secretary Cohen, because the Nairobi facility was only designated as a medium security threat post for political violence and terrorism. Threat designation is an important distinction that would leave 2012 Libyan Diplomats scratching their heads with regards to their own lack of security support from Washington. Why were their requests for security falling on deaf ears when their posts’ threat designations put both Tripoli and Benghazi in the top 10 most dangerous posts in the world? They were supposed to be at the top of the list when it came to allocating resources. Conclusion As we have always maintained, the true reason for the Benghazi attack was because of these targeted killings. There was one assassination in particular, probably in the first week of September, in which a CIA asset was killed. Imagine the perspective of a Libyan militia – they felt that they were helping out the Americans by talking to the CIA. Then the U.S. military has their guy killed. In response, they launch an assault on the State Department compound which was successful far beyond their hopes because of grossly inadequate security. Emboldened by their success, they rally and bring the fight to the CIA compound, kill two more Americans and critically wound two more agents (one CIA, and one State). Worse still, is the fact that one of the five principle suspects that the FBI has identified was someone with whom the U.S. government had an interesting quid pro quo relationship. The White House has no desire to bring these suspects to justice. They prefer them dead via drone strike or JSOC hit squad. If the FBI were to capture the Benghazi suspects it would put the White House in a bad situation. These suspects would be sure to talk about their past relationships with clandestine U.S. groups like the CIA, and in a legal setting this would have Washington pundits squirming in their seats. These are dead men walking for the same reasons UBL was certain to be killed, not captured, in Pakistan. Ambassador Stevens knew full well how dangerous Benghazi was, but he never could have seen the retaliation coming in response to Special Operations strikes that he was unaware of in such a short time on the ground. Think this sort of thing doesn’t happen? The Department of Defense no longer has to notify the CIA or State Department about many of its activities." Read more: http://sofrep.com/22460/ambassador-chris-stevens-benghazi-diary/#ixzz2yyBc8eff
Red said " if captured, they will be denied by the US gov't, declared rogue warriors, and they have a permanent way "out"." This doesn't just apply to SpecOps. This applies to any and all govt officials doing clandestine operations. Including Ambassadors.
I feel you but I don't see sides. Different opinions but I suspect we're all on the same side of this issue. I am not selling the short but seeing the realities that many of them face. Most grew up in a country that values life (or it used to) above all else. And then the gov't trains them to violate that exact value and for something that may or may not be true. Innocents are a necessary consequence of what they do. To think they can come home and easily fit in to Utopia is being short-sighted. I don't disagree. Consider though, what would we call a person who killed in excess of say, 50 people by sniper fire? A serial killer, right? Doing it in the name of the US gov't doesn't remove the actual experience of killing. Repetition creates a numbness. That can't be healthy or good for a soul. Are they still human or have some of them left that humanity on the desert floor?
Well, apart from the two I know who are doing fine working for Boeing and for a State University for good money . . . Managing the transition from Military to Civilian From Navy SEAL to Hyperbaric Medicine -- A Special Operators Transition. So where is your evidence that most former SOF have PTSD, depression, have trouble finding jobs, etc. I'm sure a few of them do. But I agree with Shane -- most of them are highly capable individuals who do just fine in civilian life. Anybody who has ever served in combat will have some issues, but most deal with it very well. So why the extreme suspicion and distrust of government? What has the government done to you that has caused this?
Sorry but I just don't see it. I can tell you from experience, real life, that many a soldier (across all services) return and do reintegrate into society quite well. Yes some have problems and I would be willing to bet that pound for pound they outnumber the SpecOp problems by a lot if for nothing else they just aren't trained nor ready for some of the shit that they see. We now have women and pencil pushers that signed up for the college money going on patrol and seeing peoples limbs blown off in front of their eyes. Those guys/gals have trouble because they thought they would be filing paperwork and fixing computer viruses and shit. Operators know what they are there to do and they feed on it, they need it. One of the first things Spec Ops go through is an intensive Psych eval. They have to be a little off center to even get in. They are a very special breed and I just don't think they have the problems you think they do. Hell Carlos Hathcock put bullets in 93 zipper heads and came home and wrote a book about it. I'm sure some of them have demons but hell we all do. Blackhawk Down (One of our posters here was in Steels unit) Lone Survivor, War, the list goes on. As I said, they probably all have some sort of demon that they live with but they live with it. They get help, if they want or need it. The issues that you are bringing up are very commonly brought up in theater all the time. They are dealt with by Chaplains, Counselors, The Wizard and friends. Of course they are and yes, you always leave something in Theater, you never come back the same person you were before you left and that is true for any service member not just Spec Ops. It is a big factor in the divorce rate being so high.
Uhhhh, OK. So, in short, you can offer no evidence to support your accusations. And you deny this evidence because of your suspicion of government. Got it. The State Department does not command forces, that is the job of the Defense Department. The State Department warned it's people that there was insufficient security in Benghazi, but the ambassador ignored his own warning. Darlin', you are doubting everything connected to this incident. So what? That is their job and they do it well. Don't you want us to kill the enemy? Irrelevant to Benghazi. The embassy in Tripoli was allocated resources, the temporary facility in Benghazi was not an embassy or a consulate and was known to be insecure. But the ambassador ignored this. The same intelligence report that said that requests for additional security "fell on deaf ears" also states that Stevens himself rejected two offers from General Carter Ham, the head of the U.S. military’s Africa command, for military protection the month before the attacks. A lot of this falls on Stevens himself, who wished to get out there with the Libyans and took a calculated risk in doing so, ignoring warnings and declining military assistance.
