I agree non-citizens are required to carry documents. Citizens are not required to carry documents at all times. My objection here is about citizens. Focus... See my post to Red in the AZ immigration thread (#258 I think). Pay close attention to this quote and who said it: I've been in unusually crowded vehicles many times during my life. It may have been a violation (I don't know), but in and of itself that is not reason to think I am illegal. This said, if the officer stops a vehicle for a reason that he would stop any vehicle, and he has reasonable cause that the driver is illegal (say a fake license), then knock yourself out. Recognize that you are saying any bunch of Mexicans is sufficient for suspecting them being illegal in a state where 30% of the legal population is Mexican decent. Remember, the law prohits this and police are law abiding, right? I posted in the AZ immigration thread that I think people are more interested in punishing hispanics than they are about implementing an effective policy limiting illegal immigration. This AZ law is populist trash. If we were really interested in slowing down illegal immigration, we would vigorously go after the employers. Illegals don't take jobs from Americans. Illegals accept jobs from EMPLOYERS who TAKE JOBS FROM AMERICANS and offer them to illegals. I think one of the times when we should have to prove our legality is when we accept a job. So I think people who hire day workers should be accountable to verify legality. The thing I note is that when talking about day workers, nobody seems to care about the truck picking them up. But I digress... Just because somebody thinks they can determine alienage, doesn't mean they can. For this to be true in your Home Depot example, only illegal Mexicans look for these jobs. Is it the case that all white and black people who look for these jobs are citizens? Why can't a poor hispanic citizen look for these jobs? There is a difference between a day laborer pick up site being a spot where illegals can be found and the claim that all day laborers are illegal. Why should we harass all the poor citizens who are trying to improve their lot by searching for these jobs? Why not go after the truck? For God's sake, go after the truck!
There is a difference between providing an id to cash a check, use a credit card, or to buy alcohol or tobacco and providing id to governmental athorities. Store clerks and bank tellers are not going to arrest you. You have the choice of not cashing the check or buying the alcohol etc. When dealing with govermental authorities, your freedom is at risk and you have constitutional rights, which is about protecting you from the government. First Amendment rights protect you from the actions of the government, not a bulletin board moderator. WRT being a passenger in a car, a US citizen is not required to carry ID at all times, so you do not have to provide a physical ID. Assuming the citizen is not a potential suspect in a real crime, all he has to do is identify himself. This means at most verbally giving his name and address. Now a person with a physical ID will probably turn it over, but that is because he doesn't want to be unjustly harassed, not because he has to. The breathing freedom loving authoritarian contradictions out there should reflect on that a little....The innocent citizen passenger surrenders his ID because he doesn't want to be unjustly harassed by the police, not because he has to.
it seems to me that is what this whole issue is about, justifying profiling. your example, alcohol and drugs, those are about age, not nationality. you can sell alcohol to me if i show you my mexican driver's license. it isnt even the law to show id, just to not sell to the underage. what specifically is your problem with illegal immigrants?
"they are breaking the law" is not a sufficient argument. would you say you hate drinkers during prohibition? the law does not define morality. if it did, you would hate red for being a pot smoking hippie. are allowing idiot lawmakers to define for you who you have a problem with? do you have a problem with rosa parks for illegal sitting in the front of the bus? why cant she just go through legal channels!? specifically what is wrong with the illegal immigrants?
i believe they drive low income wages down even further and take jobs from citizens that need what wages they can get. i believe they use resources they dont pay for, that the rest of us do.
Illegals don't take jobs from citizens. They accept jobs from employers who take jobs from citizens and offer them to illegals. This is a really important fact when designing policy.
they take those jobs. i have said before i think that it is a problem that needs to be solved from both ends. i think the employers need to have the financial snot slapped out of them when they get caught employing illegals. however, some think the problem is only in the "supply". some think it is only in the "demand". i think it is both.
so if their employers paid taxes for them, you would no longer care about them? keep in mind poor people barely pay any taxes anyways and these resources you are discussing are almost entirely paid for by the rich, not the working poor. are you similarly mad at service industry folks that (and this is rampant) always lie about income via tips when filing taxes?
if they were legal citizens then the employers would be paying for them in ways such as unemployment insurance and social security. a free ride does not just mean income taxes. as far as service industry, same as above. those people may underreport tips, but their employers are still contributing to the system for them in other ways.
