National ID Cards

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by OkieTigerTK, Apr 25, 2010.

  1. LSUsupaFan

    LSUsupaFan Founding Member

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    Not even Wal-Mart is immune. Their auditor once wrote them up for some segregation of duties issues. The findings were that their payroll masterfile was not secure and could be hacked. The CIO challenged the team to prove it. The IT audit team hacked the file, copied it, and ran several dummy transactions through it. They then ran a distribution journal and dropped it on the CIO's desk.

    Their inventory system has also been hacked more than once. The famous example is someone changed the standard cost of M&Ms and blew their cost of goods sold so high that they showed 0 gross profit. They figured it all out pretty quickly, and corrected the issue, but the IT weakness was exposed. Generally speaking standard cost tables are among the most locked down databases outthere. Few employees have access.

    Wal-Mart is one on the better end of technology and systems and is known as an innovator. If it can happen to them it can happen to any database.
     
  2. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Yet the IRS system detected the SSN error and informed you. Just as it was designed to do. Imagine that.

    The scale is no bigger than those who issue the Social Security Card deal with and the scope no bigger than those who already issue Passports and Passport Cards. The bureaucracy to produce it already exists and just needs to be coordinated and modernized.

    That is soooooo 20th Century thinking.

    Yeah, modernization creates some work. Better we get started, got to stay ahead of China. The Passport Office has tons of experience in confirming identities, you know.

    Then we iFix it.

    It's not centralized records, it's centralized, secure assurance of your legal identity. All your records remain wherever they are. Those records will be far more secure from fraudulent access with a NID than with the various, easily counterfeited ID used now.
     
  3. Swerved

    Swerved It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds.

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    What? Pal?? No "amigo" this time? You can go google yourself, then.. :thumb:
     
  4. LSUsupaFan

    LSUsupaFan Founding Member

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    Yeah they noticed on the third time around. I got no such letter the first two times I filed with that social. So the system works 33% of the time. And in three years the Social Security office never caught the error.

    The initial effort will be much greater than what the Social Security office deals with and as I illustrated Social Security can't get it right now.

    The coordination and modernization will be nearly impossible and cost too much. You seem to think it will be easy.



    Garbage in = garbage out. Before we can build the database we have to makesure every table that feeds it is correct. We are nowhere near capable of doing that.
     
  5. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Nor will we EVER be. Where does it say that a more secure system must be perfect? We can modernize and not let fear of fear of failure force us back to 3x5 index cards.

    Of course a risk manager is paid to fear failure, I realize. And you do a fine job, I'm sure. But that's why we can't let you do the visionary planning thing. :wink:
     
  6. LSUsupaFan

    LSUsupaFan Founding Member

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    Risk management is not just about threats. It is about knowing the oppurtunities and aligning stratagies with risk apetite. What you have not made a good case for, in my mind, is how the national ID will be cost effective enough to overcome the inherrent risk associated with such a massive undertaking.

    It seems to me that stricter forgery standards on state ids are a better route to go.
     
  7. mctiger

    mctiger RIP, and thanks for the music Staff Member

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    Good one.


    Authority, no. Opportunity, yes. Look at the never-ending absurdity of what goes on with the NOPD, or the post-Katrina allegations at Baton Rouge Police.
    Its not about authority.

    Neither did I.

    Neither did I.

    So you don't say we should be "required to carry ID at all times", but we "must all possess one" so as not to "complicate your identification process if legally detained by the police." Can you tell me when that legal detention is going to occur? I'll make sure to carry my ID at that time. Otherwise (end sarcastic response at this point), it sounds like I'll have to carry my ID at all times to protect myself from the police (government). And you still say this is not a step towards communism?

    It ain't the carrying of the card that's the problem, its what the government can do to you with it.

    BTW, I took your Google challenge. I found I share my name with an NBA player, a saxophonist, a noted Chemistry professor and a former IED expert of the British Army. After scanning 10 pages of links without finding a reference to me specifically, I gave up. I may be out there, but a wrong-doer is going to have to want me specifically and look extensively to find me. I see no reason to make it easier for the government to hassle me when I'm not doing anything wrong.

    Red, I don't remember your specific stance on this issue, so don't take this question personally, but how many of you that think the government can be trusted on this issue saw Gestapo tactics behind passage of the Patriot Act?
     
  8. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    OK, say that the FBI has set up a roadblock to catch dangerous criminals known to be in the vicinity. Cars are stopped. You are asked for identification (this is legal), you pull your NID and swipe it on his bluetooth device which also scans your thumbprint. 20 seconds later the NID system confirms your identity and you are free to go. Meanwhile your pal who doesn't carry his NID is detained until his identity can be confirmed through other means.

    I don't think you understand what communism is. How is a better ID card supposed to be a step toward "collective ownership" or a "classless society"? :huh:


    What government abuses do you fear, exactly, by having a better ID card?

    Your name and a couple of key words might bring up more. And each find produces more keywords to try. Mine produced a disturbing amount of data. An old resume, current and former residences, my high school, photos, dozens of my publications, my salary (also outdated), some of my hobbies, My employer has way too much about me on line and so do some of my friends. An old girlfriend has a picture of me on her friggin' website!

    A private detective can spend about $200 and find out almost anything about you that he wants to know including criminal record, credit report, tax and property records, where you shop, what you buy, your internet habits, and lots more. Privacy issues are going to loom larger and larger in a digital world. Its one reason that I think secure ID is essential to prevent identity theft. Someone who looks vaguely like me could find out enough information to pass as me in many circumstances.

    I have mixed feeling about the Patriot Act. I think it was needed to respond quickly to terrorist threats, but some things were rushed, unneeded, subject to abuse, and it needs to be tweaked. I find that I trust law enforcement officials using it to prosecute criminals effectively and not abuse citizens. But I distrust politicians who might use it for political purposes. This can only be countered by seriously jailing any abusers to hard time for long sentences.

    Any law can be abused. The trick is to build in effective countermeasures against this. The Patriot Act was rushed a bit too much for this to happen. But it is important because of the same reason that an NID is important . . . foreign law breakers must not be able to exploit our own freedom and openness to do us harm.
     
  9. TheDude

    TheDude I'm calmer than you.

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    National ID is going to mean more govt agencies and more civil servants will have access to whatever personal, financial, medical, etc. records the govt chooses to associate with your ID.

    If you have ever worked in govt or even just with cops, you will have seen some form of personal information being used in a manner that was not intended. People break rules and laws all the time. People in govt do it quite a bit and usually with impunity because there is nobody there to watch them, and nothing gets done if/when they are caught.

    And having to prove I am a citizen as the primary function for fighting illegal immigration is crazy. It's always better to not get cancer, than it is to fight it. Identifying illegals in this country is important, but not as important as stopping them at the border and penalizing the motivation for their demand.

    These can be improved drastically, both to cut illegals and help legitimate immigrant workers. Assigning yet another burden to our citizens is not the answer.
     
  10. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    hopw can you think this is not extreme!? our pal is detained!

    a girl i know always takes pictures of me when we are out drinking and puts them on facebook. i hate her for that.
     

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