National ID Cards

Execpt that the government doesn't require you or me to carry a cell phone, debit card or credit cards. You are correct that the government can use these tools to track us, but since you're no longer willing to scream "Big Brother", it sounds like you're OK with government tracking of all citizens, regardless of cause. I'm not.

Or we could expect government-run airport security to apply a little common sense in their duties..... Sorry, now I sound like I'm smoking what LaSalle's pushing.

As it should be.

Yes it is, for a government that wants to slowly erode our liberties.

Uhh, I prefer profiling when its in a situation where common sense should prevail; i.e., card the Mexican who, the percentages say, is probably an illegal, rather than card every American citizen who is probably legal.

That's how it should be happening now, and would be, if politicians would take care of the country's business, rather than their political party's! Why should you or I have to give up our privacy for this?

 

Let's cut to the chase, and I'll use a couple of Red's comments to do it:

Now some of you like to roll your eyes and laugh at those of us on the right when we talk about America headed towards socialism or communism. But Red, I ask you this; if its "a short evolution" to a national ID, what's the next evolutionary step? Could it be a national police force randomly asking American citizens minding their own business to "show us your papers, please?" ala, the Soviet Union?

Now, I suppose you'll laugh at my paranoia and tell me Americans would never allow this to happen. Maybe not in the next 6 months or 2 years, but how about in, say, 20 years?

There's a famous misquote of Norman Thomas about Americans accepting all of the Socialist platform, though we would never accept Socialism in name. And though it may be a misquote, it would seem to be true. Or is it just "evolution" we're accepting?

 

I didn't say that, obviously. What I said was using possible government tracking as an objection to National ID is a moot point because government can already track us via multiple methods. If they had a need to, which for 99% of they don't. But the Patriot Act allows them to track us if under suspicion of terrorism. It's already here and it has nothing to do with a National ID which simply identifies you in a manner that is impossible to fake. It neither makes it more likely or less likely for the government to suspect you of anything. It changes no laws, only identifies people using assumed identities.

Explain to me specifically how a national ID erodes your liberties more than the state ID and federal Social Security card that you have already? What liberties are lost exactly?

Well this is illegal and never worked to catch illegals very well anyway, did it? National ID doesn't hurt citizens one bit, only foreigners who have no business here.

You have no privacy, go Google yourself and be surprised how much info is out there on you and even more in easily accessible public records. Give me an example of how an ID card could hurt your privacy. I can give you a list of how it can enhance your privacy. My whole point is that we are giving up nothing to help solve a huge problem.

 

What can I say? I laugh at your paranoia. :grin:

Explain to me again how a simple ID card constitutes Socialism? Be specific. I thought that conservatives supported law enforcement?

I never said "change our laws" and permit police to ignore reasonable suspicion and probable cause. This gives them no new authority, just an ID that they can trust. I never said "required to carry ID at all times" either. I envision that we must all possess one and use it for certain legal business, like a SS card. But failing to carry one only complicates your identification process if legally detained by the police. Its not a crime. I'm sure some people will prefer to wait in line two hours at the airport instead of being expedited through the secure ID line. That'll show Big Brother!

Comrade, please show me the part of the Communist Manifesto where a simple ID card is a triumph of the Proletariat against the Bourgeoisie.

 

I got your Google right here, Pal.

 

Agreed. I think these are problems that can be addressed up front and will not be a problem. If a problem arise, we can change the system. Nothing is set in stone.