Red55 said: Sorry Red you said it was on the other side of the Persian Gulf from Iran. It isn't. Red 55 said: Like I said myopic. Israel isn't the prime or only concern of the issue. It is that the fighting is expanding in the ME causing more instability in the whole area. What you are advocating is like Stalin watching and helping Hitler eat Europe and being engulfed by the blitzkrieg. Hezbollah is fighting in Syria as well. There are battles in Turkey, Lebanon. Red 55 said: Serbia was part of Yugoslavia. @shane0911 Is he right did you fight or what was your mission? My memory says it was one of Clinton's deserved high points that we stopped the Serbs without ground troops. Again you noted it in the thread about government waste. Red55 said : Awful touchy Red you seem to feel free to dish out the insults (are you weepy Abdul?) can't you take the back and for...it all is in good humor isn't it? Red55 Said: No Red reality Red55 said: It is the result of Obama's lack of leadership in the beginning. If you want to rehash all the points I made showing what could have been done I will but read a little rather than take sentences out of context to argue. Red55 said:
He is @red55 so in his mind he is right by default, but on this one he is just plain right. Yes we did have troops on the ground in bosnia and Clinton sent them there. I didn't make that trip but I had lots of buds that did.
Winston . . . I said "Syria does not and is separated from Iran by the Persian Gulf and Iraq." which is true. Trust me, geography is something I'm very good at. You are trying to tell me that disjointed guerrilla jihadists in a dozen countries is some like the German invasion of Russia in WWII by three giant Army Groups?. The Balkans Wars are always a bit confusing because of all the partisan forces involved, but there were two main elements. One was the complex war in Bosnia/Herzegovina which pitted NATO and later American forces against Serbian and Croatian partisans who were committing ethnic cleansing. Later there was the war in Kosovo in which the Serbian (Yugoslav) government was pitted against a breakaway province. That is the one in which Clinton bombed the Yugoslavs into agreement without a single American casualty. Sure, the Adbul remark was an attempt at humor, sorry if you took it ill. Remarks about someone being "delusional" or "drinking the Kool-aid" seem more like shots to me. But we all do it. Call me on it when I do it. Then you can show some kind of evidence to support the notion that the Syrian Civil war can engulf the entire Middle East? Remember that the Shiite/Sunni conflicts in Iraq and Lebanon have been going on for a thousand years. The Hamas/PLO conflicts with Israel have been going on for 70 years. The Iran/Saudi Arabia animosity has been going on for 50 years. Likewise most of the unrest in the Middle East is chronic. The Syrian Civil War neither created this situation nor has it exacerbated it, other than in rhetoric. In fact it sprang from the Arab Spring phenomenon in which secular Arabs have started revolting against the dictator strongmen that rule the Arab world. That jihadists try to derail this is not surprising. You have a right to an opinion about Obama's leadership, but I have a very different one and sometimes I must challenge your facts and analysis. Rehash anything you wish to.
I'd say Obama has done no worse than Bush in the middle east and much better in some situations. Worse in others.
I can't think of a President that has done particularly well in the middle east. It has generally been wise for us to stay out of their eternal squabbling. Even Reagan blundered in Lebanon and got caught trading with the enemy in Iran/Contra. Surprisingly, Jimmy Carter has probably been the most successful. The Camp David accords that he engineered have led to 37 years of peace between Egypt and Israel. But no President has been able to make Israel and the Palestinians agree on anything. And that conflict has underlain much other middle eastern trouble.
Red said [QUOTEWinston . . . I said "Syria does not and is separated from Iran by the Persian Gulf and Iraq." which is true. Trust me, geography is something I'm very good at. ][/QUOTE] Check this map out Red. Where does the Persian Gulf come between Syria and Iran? You might want to take a refresher course.
didn't read all of this, but as a history major and someone who was very much up on foreign policy I find it funny to hear peoples opinions on Barack in the Middle East. If anything he has been more aggressive than Bush was and both of them have been basically fighting a war behind the scenes.
Bad to the drone. I agree Obama has been more aggressive, I think this is where his name and race buys him leeway on the global stage. Not here in in America where a huge sect of right wingers can't get past the fact that he is black. They will never admit it, but a white guy with the same policies wouldn't be shit on by the right like Obama is. I think the one thing that frightens me the most is this administration's disregard for privacy. Storing metadata and even if they aren't spying on us, which they are, they are damn sure selling our info to corporations so these corporations can sell us shit, or try to sell us shit. I remember when I never got calls on my cellphone except by people I know, now I get at least 20 a day by telemarketers.
