LSU v Alabama (Hoops): A tale of two Programs

This year: Auburn and South Carolina.

 

If & I say if LSU don't win another game this year then Trent is gonna be under the gun next year for sure. I have looked at the remaining schedule & to be honest not sure we are gonna win again. What upsets me the most about this years team is the lack of hustle & desire. Everybody we play beats us on the boards, outshoots us & out hustles us. If we would hustle & play hard I would be able to handle it a lot better.

 

SEC success doesn't equal NCAA success. LSU has more hardware in the closet so most of us expect more. We've been to the Final Four this decade so that is fresh in the minds of most fans and we should expect consistency.

Maybe #20 in my avatar can help in 3 years.

 

I understand saying that the team could use some fan support, but the team has to give the fans some reason to be there. I went to one of the game right before Christmas. The WHOLE presentation was bad. The only good part of the night was the little U12s playing ball at halftime. It was an ugly, boring, sloppy game played by players that did not seem to want to be on the court. I have no doubt that these kids are better than what they put on the court that night -- in fact I am sure they are better. But watching that game made me question why i even went.

I know more needs to be done with attendance, but there needs to be a reason for people to attend the game.

 

This is probably the biggest issue this season. Here we thought the frontline might be a strength of LSU's, with Malcolm White being the savior and a healthier Green and Harris.

Well, so far, I think it's fair to say White has been unspectacular. Not for lack of trying though. I want to say that he had like 6 blocks against 'Bama. He's just got his limitations. He's a 6'9", 225 forward that is undisciplined on defense, and a little unpolished on offense. That's not to say he's bad, look we made do with guys like Quentin Thornton remember? But, I think we expected him to somehow be this savior. I think he has to find a way to play more sound defense, not pick up ticky tack fouls and not get rooted out for rebounds. He's making the mistake that LSU big men have made the last few years, they're pressing and "trying too hard" rather than focusing on the basics.

I think many have overlooked Warren's issue--he's been playing hurt this year. He had surgery prior to the season and now, he's dealing with an achilles issue. If you've ever played with a tender achilles (and I have) you know you're not 100%.

Green and Ludwig. I think most folks would say, Green has improved. For those that claim Trent hasn't done anything for these kids, I'd point to Green. Here's a kid that was a Brady afterthought, and he's shown life. I think unfortunately, though, he's always been a 3 in a 4/5 body. He tends to gravitate to the game he had in high school (where he shot an oddly high number of 3s). The scary thing is, he's actually hit some of them this year (at one point he was actually shooting it at .400% clip), so he feels like he can launch them any time. To add insult to injury, if he does operate down low, he unfortunately shoots his FTs just about as well as he does from 3 land. It's frustrating, but if you told anyone that Green would be the best post player at this stage of the season, I think folks would tell you we were in trouble.

Lastly, Eddie Ludwig. Well, first I have to say, kudos Eddie for hustling against Bama. He LED all LSU rebounders (and tied the top Bama player for that matter), with 7 boards. Looked kind of out of sorts on offense, but frankly, that's just not his strength. He's a hustler, guy that won't turn it over (although he had 3 TOs vs Bama), and a guy who hits his free throws (close to 80% clip). Frankly, I can see why Trent is putting him in the game more, b/c the guy will at least play within the system. I'd actually rather see Eddie in there going to the hoop to try to pick up fouls. I also think it's a little unfair of folks bashing on him as a sub-recruit. First, he was like a top 3 player in the State of LA for his class. Second, he is a true sophomore. Third, he was the first signee to LSU from the city of N.O. in a LONG time, teammate of Matt Derenbecker, and a kid that probably "deserved" a LSU schollie. Fourth, I'll say one name--Ross Neltner. People forget that one of the biggest issues with Brady was his great inability to convince "role players" to stay at LSU. Neltner was a 6'9" underrecruited, all-state kid out of Kentucky, who folks sort of bashed and Brady used sparingly. Probably averaged 3 or 4 points a game, and a few boards, as a FR and SO. Had an ok jumpshot, but hustled and wasn't afraid to mix it up on the boards. He transferred to Vanderbilt and was then a good contributor as a RS Junior and Senior on a Vandy squad that went to the tourney. I think he ended up averaging 8-10 points and likely 5-6 boards then getting a good 20 minutes per game.

As folks are getting caught up in the "results now" mode, they don't see that Eddie Ludwig could be another Neltner. Sure, he's never going to be Shaq or Big Baby, but every team needs a Ross Neltner as a Junior/Senior, and we should thank him for coming to and staying at LSU.

All of this said, there's a reason why Trent saw the need to recruit Justin Hamilton and J O'Bryant. Here is 6'11" 260, and 6'9" 240, who are solidly post players. If we can rebound and better control the paint, make players perhaps even double team a post player, then your outside guys will find it much easier to get free for shots. So much is predicated on help d rotating to the post, in halfcourt game--and that is missing right now for us (frankly if you go back, that was almost exclusively what Brady recruited--big PFs who could get that going). The key next year will be how much of an upgrade are these guys and how do you see mixing in a more experienced group of White, Green, Warren and Ludwig who hopefully get healthy and improve more.

 

I have seen it much worse - pre Pete Maravich. Even the early Brown years weren't golden. He had to get the players into Baton Rouge, which ain't easy.

Are we on the right track - I don't know. Time will tell. I don't believe we will get much worse.

 

What LSU and coach should do is try to play a lot of neutral site games in big arenas. That's what recruits go to a lot of the powerhouses for. The Big East can attribute a lot of their success to playing the tournament in MSG. The players dream of playing games in NYC, and knowing they will play there every year is a boost.

Obviously, LSU won't play there every year, but LSU should be trying to play games in NBA arenas. Tupelo, MS isn't going to cut it. They should have either played the game in Memphis and taken a paycheck, or done a 1-1 deal. LSU should try to get games in any of the Texas NBA cities, OK City, Orlando, Atlanta, or perhaps the best option, Miami. A lot of them are out of "SEC country", but that's what the SEC would need to become more relevant outside of UK.

For the most part, the SEC tournament isn't in any of the NBA arenas, and that would be something that recruits might want to do is play in an NBA arena or 2 each year.

What else LSU should do is play games in northern cities. There's plenty of schools that they could get 1-1 or 2-1 deals with even being down because big schools won't play them. I'm not talking "BCS" level schools. I'm talking about UMass, Manhattan, Robert Morris, Cleveland St, Drexel, etc. It would give them a chance at getting recruits in those areas because it offers them a chance to play at home where they could be seen by friends and family. NYC, Baltimore, Detroit, Philly, and Washington DC are the prime recruiting areas for the most part and having players from the high schools like Oak Hill, DeMatha, Brewster, etc is a big benefit. The recruits come in ready to play because they have been in competitive games all through high school going against other college level players.

That's partially why Greg Monroe went to Georgetown, because they were willing to schedule a game against Tulane in NO so that he could be seen by family. Georgetown sucks balls, but they help make my point.

 

I recall that run vividly. We've hit the Elite, and the 16 eight times I believe.

SyrTiger mentions the Big East in the last post...that's a freakin' basketball conference there. Geez, Duke losing to the eighth or ninth placed team in that conference? That's SEC football depth in basketball.

 

I think your post amounts to "play bigger non-conference games in faraway places for recruiting", but I guess I'd contend that this would be ideal as "phase 3' of LSU basketball rebuilding (after phase 1 recruit better players, phase 2 get better and older). I think that Trent purposely scheduled this season's games as a development schedule for a young team. Remember, LSU was in the Preseason NIT last year, Madison Square Garden, and lost some big games to UConn and Arizona St. I think Trent was likely concerned about exposing his new team to that kind of pressure. I think to your point, a Memphis game in Tupelo was meant to pick a "neutral" site. It was also to play in front of a Mississippi crowd (frankly a big LSU recruiting market). That was a big game and at least a respectable game. While these games weren't necessarily as "big" b/c they weren't against marquee names, Wichita State on the road, Virginia on the road, were both nice games. The rest of the schedule was obviously more local, but I think Trent is also focusing on getting LSU's name out in places where he can recruit. Houston, North Texas, Miss, Southeast, etc.

i think often it's hard to schedule the 1-1 home aways with some of these schools, but I get the point about making the schedule more "exciting". Frankly, Brady was also notorious for scheduling creampuff schedules, and except for that 2006 run where he had the likes of UConn on the schedule, folks always claimed that he underscheduled. While I'd love to see LSU play in the big boy leagues, I don't necessarily buy that. I'm not sure that LSU fans, with bowl games coming up in late December are going to psyched about LSU vs. ACC/BigEast school unless the team is in the top 20 and there isn't a football game looming. And, I'm also not so sure that LSU fans are "internally motivated" enough to watch a game against a Manhattan, St. Joes, or a faraway respectable "mid major." But, the first step is getting respectable, so big schools want those match ups. I actually think that for attendance and local recruiting, frankly, it's being more competitive at home and not "losing face" so often in big games. Win at home, try to steal one on the road, should be the norm. Big losses to North Texas, Nicholls State, Ole Miss on FFour celebration day, are pretty unfortunate losses this year. Brady had plenty of them too, but it just kills attendance building momentum for a season.

I think the SEC/ACC challenge and the ESPN contracts are enough to help with recruiting (i.e., more exposure means more respect, more eyeballs). The best thing for LSU to do is start consistently competing in the SEC, and provided they're in that top 4-5 teams in the SEC, the better schedules and exposure will come. The key to me in recruiting is still the coach or coaches doing the recruiting, the school itself (facilities and tradition) and hoops atmosphere (are fans excited about the program), and the other intangibles (ability to get that kid prepared for the NBA, the alumni, etc.) that sell a recruit. Oh, and I think Monroe going to Georgetown was in part who was at the helm of the ship at the time and LSU's credibility in N.O., countered with Big East prestige and Georgetown history of getting N.O. players.

 

Good call on the Neltner mention. I was just thinking of him too. Also reading your passage on Malcolm White, specifically the Quinton Thornton mention, reminded me of the steady if unspectacular play of Darnell Lazare. That guy would come in and get a bucket or two at at time, grab some boards, and then come back out. Nothing flashy but I'll be damned if he didn't have 8-10 points at the end of the night.

We need more guys like that on the block. They're not all gonna be Shaq or Dwight Howard. Sometimes you just need a steady big man who can catch the ball inside and knock down a few lay ups.