John Brady ran out of gas with me in 2002. I feel like I've given more than enough rope to CTJ, especially during this recruiting season.
Look on most accounts ANY year is going to be a down year after a 13 win SEC season and a SEC Championship. Let's keep it real. Yes, Callendar, you are right to ask some questions about CTJ's recruiting. So far, there haven't been any 5* recruits commit to Mr. Straight and Narrow Johnson. BUT, I have said it all along in this thread and the 2010 thread, Johnson recruits as follows: (1) he goes after players that want to be at LSU and want to play his way, (2) he's looking for certain players that play with the right attitude and aptitude, (3) he's looking for players that fit within his system. He's going to take a few swings at players who may be one and dones, but it's a little unclear to me how badly he wants those guys... I have a feeling that he does want them, but he's not going to fawn over them or kiss their entourage's asses or ... worse, do like Cal or Rick Stansbury. He's also not going to put LSU in any APR risk or risk his reputation or LSU's reputation (see Kentucky thread on Tiger's Den). As far as I know, Trent only went after a few big name 5* (mostly bigs)... Cousins, Sidney, Orton. He might have expressed some interest in Deshonte Riley and the big Ukranian center. He did whiff on each of these kids. BUT, you have to keep the positives in mind, he got early commitments from kids like Jalen Courtney and John Isaac, he signed a 4* from Seattle in Aaron Dotson. If Noel Johnson ends up coming here, Noel is considered a top 50 player by most accounts, and 2009 will be a very solid class. 2010 is going to be his first "make it or break it" year, with a very deep LA class--so far, that class seems to be coming together relatively nicely with at least 6 or so 4* or betters seriously considering LSU. I would guess we'd get at least 3 of them (Again, Courtney is already in the list). So, you have to live with Trent's style of recruiting, to go along with his very good coaching. He's a little bit of an understated coach, but he will get the best out of his players, coach them up, and I think as time goes on, his type of recruits will come to LSU. No doubt 2009-10 will be a challenging year, with the rest of the SEC older and better, but Johnson is establishing his program over the next few years. I don't think recruits will interpret this next year's "down" year a mark against recruiting, b/c they know what kind of coach Trent is and what kind of program he's building. I would not go so far as Deek as for Noel Johnson, but if Trent signs NJ, I think we will be plenty competitive enough to not lose momentum. I think if Tas and NJ aren't Tigers, I think it'll be a tough, but good seasoning year for LSU's young players and 2010 recruits will still look at LSU positively.
I just had to point this out... I'm not sure what baseline you're operating under, but LSU basketball is just not where LSU football and baseball are right now. Since when should we just "expect" LSU to be on every top recruit's list? The "current conditions" happen to be Trent taking over for a fired coach just a year ago, without a full head of steam recruiting for 2009 and a "down" year for LA talent by most accounts in 2009. There is always some transition time with any coaching regime change, and the only thing clouding this fact is how LSU overachieved this year. As a said in my last post, I don't think we'll be "bad" next year to the point it will affect recruiting. We'll be undermanned, but we'll compete hard and probably play a lot of close games. If Tas' comes back and Trent can somehow land Noel Johnson, we'll still be better than Ole Miss, Alabama, and Auburn and likely right there with Arkansas, and potentially chasing Miss St. If Trent signs a good to very good class in 2010, we'll be challenging for the SEC West title year in and year out from then (remember as well, Malcolm White is sitting there for that class too).
the crappy thing is, for us forum debaters, that we wont likely know how this will go for a few years. ctj is a good coach, but can he bring in the right players? even after two more seasons we may not know.
Thanks for the replys guys. I can tell there are some of you out there that are wondering about this upcoming year also.. I Know this is still a transition time & I have faith that Johnston will recruit well once things settle down & I feel that LSU will be a solid team in years to come.. I am just a little disappointed (& spoiled) that we didn't get someone big (center) this year.. :geaux:
I think this is a fair point and I would generally agree. You can't tell how great a recruiter is, with the exception of the top of the food chain (i.e., Williams, Calipari, etc.), until he's had a few years to really get his foundation. For Trent, he wasn't such a big name that he could immediately command 5* recruit's respect after going from Nevada to Stanford to LSU and a completely different recruiting environment with a new staff. That said, I do think that coaching and success tends to breed recruiting success, and I would give Trent a B+ right now, primarily for convincing a 4 star kid, Aaron Dotson, to make the trek to Baton Rouge from the West Coast (he outrecruited Rick Pitino for Dotson), for getting back to MS with Jalen Courtney, and getting what is likely going to be a 4* or better LA recruit, John Isaac to commit so early to the Tigers. I also disagree that about your last statement that it may not be known after two more years. I would rephrase your question that we may not know what kind of success we'll have with Trent's kind of players, but I do think we'll know what kind of players Trent's trying to recruit. It strikes me somewhat that Trent perhaps has a "mid-major" philosophy of recruiting. I.e., given where he's been, he's had to focus on good 3-4 year players who may not be McD A-As but have to develop. Now, I think the question that people will have is will that philosophy work at a BCS conference, especially in the SEC where athletes are such a necessity. How is a kid like Eddie Ludwig, or Matt Derenbrecker going to play in the SEC, for example? I for one, think it can, as long as he's bringing in decent athletes who know how to play smart and can play hard. That's just not going to fly necessarily with 5* recruits who need to be pampered all the time. But, remember, LSU went the final four with Darrell Mitchell (2 star), Tyrus Thomas (2 star?), Garrett Temple (2 star), Glen Davis (4 star) and Tas' (McDAA). Trent's belief is probably wrap up these 3-4* players from LA, MS, TX and GA as a baseline and he'll take his chances... I think it's fair to judge Trent's recruiting on his success in the 2010 class. He has had time and he clearly has a good LA talent base to work with and a good number of scholarships.
im 100% in favor of ctj's recruiting philosophy (as we've debated before im no fan of players that do not value education). i think this philosophy will work in the SEC with a good xs and os coach that can also develop players (seems to describe ctj). a team full of DMitch, Tas, GT, Dupree, Jabari Smith, Haminck, etc will beat an inexperienced team with one stud. and in the SEC there seems to be more of those type teams. i question how much of a negative effect the severe drop off of the next two seasons (im not as optimistic as Deek) will have on ctj's recruiting ability. but i guess im contridicting myself a bit. if ctj is given several years (i doubt they would let him go after three seasons unless its a total embarrassment) he will put continually good teams out because he wont depend on 5* recruits.
I was impressed with the product that CJ put on the court last season. The team played as a team and seemed to have a good grasp of his system. However, CJ inherited some pretty good players from the last staff and he also benefitted from the mediocre play of other teams in the conference. Unless recruiting improves quickly he will have a tough time competing with the upper teams in the conference. It's not a good sign when LSU fans are excited about transfers from Ole Miss.
If you look at CTJ track record you definitely wouldn't say recruiting is his strong point but he always finds his way to the post season. Out side of the Lopez twins in four years at Stanford he only had one other recruit higher then 3 stars. And im pretty sure he didnt have that many 4 & 5 star guys at Navada. I dont think you can judge CTJ's recruiting based on stars. It seems as if he goes after the guys he can mold into his system.
I fail to see how you can't be optimistic after CTJ took a team which finished 5-11 and 6-10 in conference play over the last 2 seasons to an outright championship. Every single LSU player with the possible exception of Chris Johnson improved from 2007-08 to 2008-09. A Marcus Thornton improved all facets of his game, so much so that he's going to possibly get himself drafted in the 1st round of the NBA draft. Bo Spencer turned his game from absolute garbage into averaging double figures, being LSU's floor leader, and a defensive presence. It simply isn't beyond the realm of possibility that T.Mitch will stay and Noel Johnson will come to LSU. Add those 2 to the mix and we will be very strong next year. Subtract those 2 and LSU will struggle to reach .500, but we might be pleasantly surprised. LSU! I'm excited to see what a Dennis Harris and a Garrett Green will bring to the table under a CTJ/Keith Richard regime.
