Is Russia really the bad guy here???

Why do you begin your history lesson on US intervention into Ukraine politics with Obama? Why not start sooner, like when George W. called for Georgia and Ukraine to be admitted into NATO before he left office? Remember that? Remember when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008? Mean old Putin wasn't in charge back then.

What is happening today is a repeat performance of what happened in 2008 with Georgia. As long as you are pointing fingers, why not start where it began? Bush and his cronies Rumsfeld, Cheney, et al. were NeoCons and loved to beat war drums in the name of democracy. What Obama was doing was just an extension of Bush's plans for the region. This isn't a gotcha moment for Obama/Biden haters. It didn't begin with Obama and it won't end with Biden but yes, there was a time between the two where Putin thought he could get Ukraine back on board without a "Special Operation" to rid Ukraine of Nazi, Fascist, Terrorist, Nationalist, Human Rights abusers.

 

Convenient to his false, pro-fascist narrative.

It's only bad when Democrats try to gain allies for America. Don't you know Democrats are now even bombing maternity wards in Kharkiv?

That time was the trump administration, obviously. Why would Putin waste Russian military resources and Russian lives when trump was already doing so much dirty work for him?

 

A propaganda timeline:

Mar 7: Russia bombs a maternity ward in Mariupol, Ukraine, killing expectant mothers, new mothers, newborns, and the yet to be born.

Mar 9: When confronted by BBC News, Russian Foreign Minister, a friend of trump's, tries to justify the atrocity: "This is not the first time we see pathetic outcries concerning the so-called atrocities perpetrated by the Russian military. Public opinion is manipulated by “very emotional" reports."

Mar 10: Greg Gutfeld of Fox "News": "Media outlets of seeking an “emotional response” in their coverage of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine."

 

Is Russia really the bad guy here?

Ukrainian emergency employees and volunteers carry an injured pregnant woman from the damaged hospital maternity ward in Mariupol:

 

Actually Putin was in power then. Whether serving as President or Prime Minister Putin was in charge.
However your greater point has some merit. Putin has been taking steps to rebuild the territory of the old Soviet Union since he came to power. His tactics are no different than he used in Grozny or Georgia or Syria and the west including every president in those years has let him slide. This time he overstepped and attacked a country that mattered to the west and where his terrorist policies couldn’t be hidden.
The only canary in the coal mine was Mitt Romney in 2012 and Obama made a joke of it.

 

I'm all in for blaming Bush as well Mancha! I don't pull punches. All of these people on here who think the US Government is some kind of moral compass for the world, and that the people in it are anything other than self serving narcissist are just stupid. Putin is no better and cut from the same cloth. The problem is, when people want to rule the world, they don't care about the little people who get in the way. All of this is playing out on a level way above the common people's pay grade.

When someone like me comes along, who hates government, and thinks ALL the people in it are crooks, and point out that it isn't just "ONE" person, but it's the whole lot of them, and that "our guys" are just as much at fault as the other guy in the grander scheme of things .... whiny babies like Rex get all emotional and start stating the obvious. Yeah .. Putin shouldn't be invading Ukraine. That is pretty obvious. Yeah .. Putin wants to rule the world just as much as Democratic Party of the US. Putin's rub with the Democratic Party says something Mancha. He and Trump weren't great buddies like the liars in the MSM made out Putin probably couldn't have cared less about Trump. His target was the Democrats, because the latest ploy to move NATO on the border of Russia was by them.

 

You've made some good points in this thread, but then you go completely off the rails. You downplay the fact that everyone including Putin knows that NATO does not exist to take Russia's shit - it exists to keep Russia from taking the NATO countries shit. Then adding an equivalency between the Democratic party and Putin's Russia is so fucking nuts there is no reason to detail why its fucking nuts.
This has absolutely nothing to do with NATO expansion - other than Putin wanted to get it going before Ukraine developed any formal ties to the West. Its just the excuse he used; if it hadn't been there he would have made another one up. Just like he will make something up to use chemical weapons when he feels he has to. Chechnya and Georgia give proof to that lie that this was about Ukraine and NATO.

Besides, does anyone really think Putin feels his security is threatened by a NATO Ukraine, Bullshit. He is threatened by a free people - meaning he will always be threatened by free people. We should care about that. Because if all of Putin's fantasies came true we would all be living in his kind or world - and there would be no first or second amendment to say the least.

 

What did all of those innocent American servicemen have to do with Japan attacking us on Dec 7th?

 

Thanks for making my point.

 

That was the entire purpose of this disgusting thread. He's such a brainwashed sheep that he blames Democrats over Putin for the murder of tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians. That takes a dumbfuck sociopath.