Is Obama preparing a trillion-dollar, mass refinancing of mortgages?

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Cajun Sensation, Jan 6, 2012.

  1. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    A bailout is letting the banks get away with no losses while the homeowner and the government lose tax money and a house. This is what you support?

    Lowering rates makes the banks receive less profit but they get it in 15 years instead of 30. The government doesn't have to pay off the banks, and the homeowner get to keep paying his mortgage. It's an everybody-wins-a-little compromise.
     
  2. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    if banks are not forced to deal with foreclosures, then what is their motivation to be responsible lenders? this is why this problem exists! we dont let the market sort things out.
     
  3. PURPLE TIGER

    PURPLE TIGER HOPE is not a strategy!

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    I've been busy (actually working...I can explain that if any Democrats don't understand :D) so I just read your reply.

    Here's my answer...I would do whatever YOU and Obama want me to do. I've seen the light. Money does grow on trees. We should continue to print more money and throw it at everything possible. Taxing and spending is the only answer. While we're at it we should take all the money from people who don't vote Democrat and give it to those who do.

    The plan has worked so well for the past three years we should continue. I'm now seeing the genius behind it all. This guy isn't the worst president of all time. He's the greatest! It's really easy to see. I just close my eyes and keep saying Obama is the answer and eventually I believe it.





    When I look at the Republican candidates lined up next to each other...I don't see a great choice.

    When I look at the Republican candidates lined up next to Obama...I see no other choice!
     
  4. Cajun Sensation

    Cajun Sensation I'm kind of a big deal Staff Member

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    They will for 2 reasons:

    A) it's better than foreclosing on them and letting them sit

    B) Fannie and Freddie will buy the loans on the secondary market (as long as the guidelines are followed)
     
  5. Tiger in NC

    Tiger in NC There's a sucker born everyday...

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    Well, I will grant you this Purple Tiger: it is not a good time to be a Republican. I am not being facetious here, I really do feel bad for my Republican friends because there isn't a single candidate who will inspire your electorate.

    That being said, you still didn't answer my question: what is your solution? Obama aside, I honestly want to know what you think we should do to help speed the housing recovery. Or maybe you think we should do nothing at all but nevertheless, what is your solution?

    P.S. You're joke about work and democrats actually made me laugh....so....good one.
     
  6. mobius481

    mobius481 Registered Member

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    Look, I don't like the bank bailouts any more than the next guy. They are despicable. However, it was the only way to preserve our financial system and to stop us from going into an economic period that would make the last three years look like la la land. A lot of the money has been paid back by big banks or is in a position to be paid back through equity and warrants in the companies. Also, your statement implies that while banks were going crazy, we as citizen's were not benefiting in any way. The housing bubble lead to a tremendous bull market that increased wages and standard of living for everyone while things were good. The point I'm making is that we all were thriving when the banks were doing these dangerous things.

    In short, I would say two wrongs don't make a right. You have to stop somewhere. I didn't agree with GM bailout or other stuff that was not related to the initial critical stages of TARP. I truly believe it had to be done to save our country. The real failure has been the inability of our lawmakers to solve "too big to fail" since the bailouts.
     
  7. mobius481

    mobius481 Registered Member

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    Banks didn't have any losses in the housing downturn? That's news to me. As far as homeowner and government losing money and house, that doesn't even make any sense. Your example specifically stated that it was for borrowers who were on time and were not having trouble paying their notes. Why should they get a handout and not everybody? In your article, none of these homes that would qualify are in risk of foreclosure. In the example they gave, the monthly payment for the individual actually goes up.

    So basically a coupon worth 6.5% is now worth 3.5% with no change in the risk to the lender because the payment is the same. Exactly how is this advantageous to the guarantor?

    The bank is getting paid already. They don't own those mortgages in almost all instances. They don't care about getting "their" money back because most times it's not "their" money. Fannie/Freddie has either bought them or guaranteed them.....

    Reason Foundation - Out of Control Policy Blog > How Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Guarantees Work In Brief

    So all we've done at this point is taken a payback of 6.5% and turned it into 3.5%. How is that good for taxpayers? And why do people who can afford to pay for their investment mistakes get to benefit when those who are truly going broke or who aren't in a bad situation because of smart financial decisions don't get any benefit?
     
  8. mobius481

    mobius481 Registered Member

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    None of these houses in the example are in risk of foreclosure. In fact, that particular plan specifically excludes houses in risk of foreclosure.

    [/quote]B) Fannie and Freddie will buy the loans on the secondary market (as long as the guidelines are followed)[/QUOTE]

    Exactly! Fannie and Freddie are loosening the guidelines and making poorer investments with taxpayer money to help these borrowers. But that wasn't really my question. My questions is what lender, true lender not middleman, would do this deal? If you were a bank that held mortgages and didn't sell them to anyone and they were not guaranteed by Fannie/Freddie, would you really lower the interest rate for someone because their house lost value. No way. Everything is driven by the government's involvement in this market and the banks will jump at a chance to refinance a loan because they're not really putting any money at risk. Banks make money on fees, not collecting 5% interest.
     
  9. Cajun Sensation

    Cajun Sensation I'm kind of a big deal Staff Member

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    First of all, you have to know how Fannie and Freddie works. "True" lenders have X number of dollars to loan to homeowners. Let's say they lend it all out. Fannie and Freddie are there to buy those mortgages on the secondary market (as long as the lender followed the laundry list of guidelines when they wrote the loan....otherwise Fannie and Freddie won't buy it) to free up the money so that the mortgage company/bank can get out there and loan more money to more homeowners.

    "True Lenders" like Wells Fargo, Chase, Citi, Bank of America, etc. do this. Local banks do it. Mortgage brokers do it....everyone does. If not, you are irrelevant (and you are offering high rates, balloons, etc)

    If you are referring to a mom and pop bank that does not sell their loans to Fannie and Freddie their rates will ABSOLUTELY be higher. Those banks/lenders can't compete with the ones that offer Fannie, Freddie, FHA and VA loans. Often times the ones that don't offer Fannie and Freddie backed loans are balloons, adjustable rates, etc.

    I guess your concern is that Fannie and Freddie are taking on risky loans. Well, maybe and maybe not. If the loan already sits with Fannie/Freddie (which it must under this proposal) and the homeowner is making his payments NOW at the higher rate, then surely he can make them if they are lower, right? Is he underwater? Sure. But if they don't make this move, statistics say that it could be Fannie or Freddie's house underwater, empty and sitting which costs Fannie and Freddie ALOT more than reducing the payments that are already being made to them and keeping a family in the house.

    Also, those mom and pop shops have been known to "modify" mortgages to keep from having another foreclosure on their books....so yes, they do this on a much smaller scale.

    Also remember the other benefits that are being researched regarding this proposal:

     
  10. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Me too, you made that up, I sure didn't say anything about bank losses in the down turn.

    Of course it does. If the homeowner cannot refinance and he loses a house, then govn't guarantees the bank loan. Its a lose, lose except for the bank.

    You made that up, too. the article said "must be current on their mortgage with no late payments in the past six months and no more than one late payment in the past year".

    Who says this? Not the article, you are assuming this because they are keeping up with notes. This does not mean that they can do this much longer.

    By $30 . . . but it saves them $126,000 in interest.

    What risk on a guaranteed loan?

    Because it makes it possible for a homeowner to pay what he owes without requiring a government guarantee?

    Exactly why I think they should have to compromise bait to keep the housing market working and mortgages paid.

    Because they never have to spend the guarantee money, the homeowner pays the mortgage.

    It rewards those who have bought a house that it is possible for them to pay for. Those that bought a house beyond their means don't deserve any help.
     

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