Interesting comparison Miles to Mack Brown

There are "Miles haters" who are reasonable in their observations and there are "Sunshine pumpers who are genuinely concerned. Both camps are being objective.

I know I'm concerned. The Ole Miss game made me want to puke. Russell Shepard not playing till late in the season and not yet throwing a pass just plain out makes me wonder.

I just can't stand it when people just dismiss Miles' accomplishments cavalierly because it suits their position. I hate it when these people call for him to be fired in mid season like Zook.

Saban left us in a mess. His defense was so complicated and depended on multiple players making correct reads that after the NC year, the backups had little experience doing this correctly and that's why we lost all those games. Saban was here long enough to realize that there's very little one can do to keep this fan base happy. I think that's part of why he jumped ship.

Sure, he left us with some talent...but that talent was responsible for the five loss season.

We have to look at the big picture. And the big picture is that despite our problems, we are on the upswing this year compared to last year. Maybe with the coaching changes last year and so far this year, we'll be truly better next year. Maybe the coaching changes aren't finished this year also.

opcorn:

 

But, so here again, lies the difficulty in the discussion. What does "improvement" mean to you? That the kids are "playing hard" "playing 'Perfectly'"?

It seems that the folks that call into question the job that coaches and players are doing are relying on some sense that these players need to be "here" in their minds. They want this, and seem to forget that we were 7-5 last year, our defense was ineffective, and we had a fair degree of uncertainty going into this season. We also had new coaches and new players throughout the line up. To be fair, the same things can be said of people who had low expectations going into te season--they are pleasantly pleased.

Sure we lost some close games this season, and didn't look "great" in the process. But, a win against LaTech SHOULD be appreciated when the likes of the great Saban has lost to ULM before. No win should be taken for granted in today's game. We also found a way to win at Georgia, did so against Arkansas. Games that could have very well left us in the same place as last year. So, you have to look to the W-L as improvements. I personally don't see the team as "not playing hard" but perhaps at times "not playing perfectly" or "not executing to the best of their ability". But, that's in part coaching and in part players' not executing. I think to argue that they should be executing 100% of the time, is to ignore the reality of sports, which is that it's an imperfect science. I guarantee that you can watch any coach, any team and find faults in their play. So, keep searching for perfection, I suppose. :wink: I also as you say will be looking for "improvement", starting with the bowl game, although I'll be happy with a NY's win. :thumb:

 

A lackluster win against LaTech does not impress me. Saban had his UAB at Bama with ULM (both in his first year at each respective program, right?); he deserves criticism for it but has turned things around since. The lackluster performance against LaTech wouldn't bother me as much if that type of play was an anomaly, but it was a season long phenomenon.

I like to see players play sharper as the season goes on, not make the same mistakes at the same frequency at the end of the season when compared to the start of the season. See the team "get it" at some point and play hard from that point on.

I remember how we played last year. Coming into the season I expected the defense to be well improved (I was correct) and I didn't think the offense could be worse (I was wrong). I didn't think we would groom Lee all last season for him to see sparse playing time this season. I'm disappointed in our misuse of the quarterbacks, I'm disappointed in our inability to utilize our talent at receiver (reminds me of the Dinardo era), I'm disappointed in our play at the line on both sides of the ball. I'm not real crazy about the bend don't break defense either, but I'll give Chavis the benefit of the doubt (like I gave Miles last year).

Someone else brought this topic up, but how many players are greater football players for having played at LSU under Miles tenure? What has Miles done in terms of football for his players that another coach wouldn't have? I can't think of many. Maybe Quinn Johnson? Maybe some of our tight ends? Perhaps some of our kickers?

I don't argue that our players should be perfect. I think I've said this quite a few times in this thread. I think they should strive for perfection. I think Miles and his team could stand to strive a little more for perfection.
Merry Christmas. I'm hoping for a well played bowl win, can accept a well played loss, don't want to see another skunk performance from LSU in either case. Is it fair to assume that if we play well and lose you will be upset since W/L's are the only thing that matters?

 

I didn't say a close win against LaTech should impress you, just that you should appreciate it as a win, as opposed to a loss (like many a "good" coaches have had).

I don't think that you can generalize and say no players have improved as the season has gone on. I think JJ actually improved with certain things, like understanding of the option--to bad he was hurt in the middle of the season. You could argue that the O-Line improved as the season went on.

I see now... you wanted Lee to play more. Case in point on your logic. There was no mismanagement of the QBs... just young QBs still learning the game. JJ gave the Tigers a better chance to win.

Agree with you here... Line play wasn't its best. But, does this all fall on the coaching? We had new players on both lines. Arguably, here, there's some belief that Miles played more senior players before more talented kids behind them. Not sure of the validity of this, but at least acknowledge the fact that there are new players here, and perhaps some of these kids are not All-Pros like everyone assumes.

Again, this is a standard that is completely subjective. "Greater players" for playing at LSU/Miles? I'd gather that MOST of the kids who went to LSU under Miles' tenure actually enjoyed their time at LSU because of his leadership. As for who has improved? Well consider first the NFL draftees--the problem is you assume you "know" their baseline and "know" where they were "supposed" to end up. There's no telling who will get better or worse. You look at a kid like RP who completely played himself out of being a first round draft pick, is that on Miles or him? Plus, to really answer this question you really need to ask this question when folks like Chad Jones, Peterson, etc., get drafted. I suspect that many of Miles' high profile recruits will end up doing fine in the draft, and ultimately that's the measure of objective player football success. You could similarly argue look at what "Saban recruits" have done... did Jamarcus Russell "improve" while at LSU? Certainly LSU helped him make ALOT of $... but what did he learn from Jimbo and Saban?

Again, "strive for perfection" is in the eye of the beholder. Of course Miles and Staff are doing the best they can, and striving for perfection. To say that they're "not trying" is just being critical. They may make mistakes with player development, philosophies on the field or calls, but that's part of the game. Are they adapting/improving? I'd say that playing the way against Arkansas was improvement after a very bad loss at Ole Miss. I also expect them to play well against PSU, b/c it's a testament to Miles' staff, when given time to prepare for a bowl game, LSU has done well.

Yes, I look at wins losses. I will most certainly be disappointed if the Tigers lose in the bowl game. Them playing "very well" in a loss certainly makes the loss easier to swallow, but I'll still be disappointed. I can also say I'll be happier with a win, where they don't play great, than a loss where they play great. :lol:

 

Actually, around here, Les gets NO credit for winning. When this team wins it's because of either/or:

1.) We were SUPPOSED to win
2.) Because of talent, not coaching
3.) The players won in spite of the coaching

I'm sure there are more. But that's the norm and it's b.s.

 

You forgot, he is the luckiest coach alive.

 

I knew there was an other one.

 

Mark my words, gentlemen. Mark my words. :wink:

Looks like Florida's going to have the opportunity to "upgrade" in coaching talent, and all of the naysayers can see how coaching upheaval affects a dominant program, eh? opcorn:

 

I do, which doesn't mean I can't criticize it.

Neither Jordan Jefferson nor the offensive line have looked significantly improved, but that's just IMO.

I'm looking over the span of two years (since Perilloux left us in the lurch).

YEAR ONE: Play an inexperienced QB in Lee almost exclusively. Jefferson rarely sees the field.
YEAR TWO: Play an inexperienced QB in Jefferson almost exclusively. Lee rarely sees the field.

There is a problem there. You play both QBs, give them time on the field, time watching the game from the sidelines. You don't throw a QB to the fire to get experience only to play the QB who was on the bench all last season in lieu of the QB with experience. I won't argue that Lee is the best choice, only that both should have been brought along together.

Everything goes back to coaching, especially the head coach. Miles is responsible for recruiting players who were later chased out of town for one reason or another. Miles is responsible for recruiting players who either aren't capable of playing at a high level or who weren't sufficiently coached to perform at a high level. If he or his staff have a bad eye for talent and/or character, I damn sure do hold Miles to account. Likewise if he or his staff have issues developing good character/talent guys.

That's true. My opinion is critical, yours is defensive.

I just can't think of many players who have excelled under Miles. I suppose you could say fullbacks Jacob Hester and Quinn Johnson. Linebackers under Chavis seem to have improved. we've had some pretty good tight ends under Miles. Who am I missing?

And happier still with a well played win, I guess. I just feel I'd rather lose playing great to a great opponent than win playing mediocre to a mediocre opponent. It is easier for me to accept that my opponent is great than it is to accept that my team is mediocre. Of course, I wouldn't want to always accept that my opponent is greater.

Another thing... I'm really confused at the line of reasoning that Miles is a professional and shouldn't be criticised by laymen. Do all of you who argue this point simply accept whatever your doctor tells you without critical reason? He is the professional and you are the layman, after all.

Comparing Saban and Miles linearly is not reasonable. I never claimed that Saban is perfect. I was critical of Saban while he was here, I'm just more critical of Miles. What befuddles me is how so many can be so utterly uncritical of a coach. I guess we're just all along for the ride ultimately, so that is a more grounded approach, I suppose. "It's just great to be a tiger," I guess isn't the worst mindset. Maybe it is old age that's mellowed so many of you. That's very Buddhic of you all.

I don't think many Gators were calling for Meyer to retire. Let's be sure to give UF plenty of time to transition and defend thier coach every chance we get. One of my biggest issues concerning Miles is that if he were coach at another SEC program I wouldn't be real concerned about his ability to have his team playing at the highest level. As long as my team was well coached I'd feel like we should have a good shot at Miles.

How I'd feel at another SEC school about Les Miles...

VANDY - 0-2
We're Vandy and won't ever be on the same level as LSU unless LSU takes a nose dive circa the early 90s. Let's go study.

Moo U - 0-5
We've been sucking, but we had a moral victory this year and may be headed in the right direction with our new coach. I wanted to like Croom, but he never made us a NC contender. Jackie Sherill was one awesome rodeo clown. He got R done. Hopefully Mullen can get the cowbells ringing like Sherill used to.

UGA - 2-1
Richt doesn't make me real happy, but I'm pretty happy with the way we've played LSU under both Saban and Miles. But I'm ready for Richt to go. And put those damn black uni's out to roost.

UF - 3-2
I felt good about the direction of our program, particularly against LSU, until Meyer lost to Saban and started wigging out. I still feel like we're one of the best programs going, but I'm just not feeling as chompy as I used to at this particular point in time and space.

AU - 1-4
Tuberville was pretty good, but he lost big games (USC x 2, damn it) and had us playing some mediocre ball by the time we showed him the door. Not to mention the gris gris cast on him - went undefeated and got the nonBCS treatment. Then we go and hire Chizik in response to Bama's Saban. Damn it. Oh yeah, we keep losing to LSU, that sucks. I remember the days when that game was a back and forth battle.

BAMA - 2-3
Shula was not the answer. Saban has been spectacular despite hitting a few speed bumps his first year and Utah his second year. The Bear has been resurected as had been prophesied. All Roll Saban. LSU is on the way down now that Saban is gone.

Ole Miss - 2-3
I am so glad we fired that ogre Ogeron. Nutt has us playing pretty good, especially against LSU. I knew we weren't the runts Ogeron made us out to be. Today I drank a hotty toddy with ole Archie and his boys. Yum. (NOTE: This one particularly makes my skin crawl. -lil)

PIGS - 2-3
Oh lord, allow Petrino to make us relevant. It's been so long. At least we look like a real competitive team when we play LSU.

USC - 0-2
Neither Holtz nor Spurrier have enough spunk to make the nation have much respect for us. Maybe we should hire Holtz Jr, or leave for the ACC, or both.

UK - 1-1
We've fared decently against Miles on the gridiron. Football is an amusing diversion, but basketball is where it's really at. Tubby Smith and Gillispie don't have stink on sweet and smooth Calipari.

TENN - 1-2
I'm glad we finally stuck a krispy kreme in Fulmer, he was done a long time ago. Ole rocky top is a grand ole place for the derranged young Kiffin. His lunacy is a ruse to put us back on top of the East (see, it's already working on Meyer weiner).