I am an American ( Not Republican or Democrat)

Winston1 · Sep 23, 2012

red55 said: ↑

Splendidly. It made themthe first superpower. Two World Wars bankrupted them, another lesson we should learn.

Of course the old rust-belt steel mills are out of commission. There are over 100 years old and part of 20th Century America. But new steel mills with new technology that competes with cheap overseas steel is still booming. Nucor is building one in Louisiana right now and its not the first steel mill in Louisiana. The USA is the 3rd biggest steel producer and is competitive.

Uhhhh, OK.

You know, I wish I still had my Rock'em Sock'em robot from 1966. It would bring 100 bucls on Ebay today. But guess what? I broke it in 1966! They are plastic, Dude.

You know, America once produce more buggy whips than any country in the world. But times change and trade evolves. Synthetic fibers have taken away a lot of the market. Plus in America, corn ethanol subsidies have made many farmers switch from cotton production to corn.

I did it in a Walgreens in 3 minutes.

Everything is imperfect and horrible . . . except compared to any other country.

What about it?

My God. The world is coming to an end. Where is my tinfoil helmet!

Seriously Calco, we do need a third party. But the US is not falling apart. The opposition in election years always plays up the sky is falling rhetoric. But in truth we have a lot going for us and nobody is doing any better.
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Red we have our differences about details but this is a great answer to Calco's pessimism. The more people realize that in every challenge there is opportunity and to grasp for the future with a poisitive outlook is self reinforcing the better off we will be. That is not to say we don't have profound challenges ahead, but to face them with courage, honesty and intention to turn them into positive results ir necessary. I have more than faith America will overcome present challenges and continue to be "the shining beacon on the hill".

Atreus21 · Sep 25, 2012

red55 said: ↑

I'm with you on a moderate, pragmatic third party. But I think you are way pessimistic about America and have some facts wrong.

The best thing we can do to fix this is to outlaw lobbyists. Wealthy special interests have long been able to buy politicians and now Super-PACs can buy elections. There is nothing in the Constitution about lobbyists coming between a politician and his constituents. Let the special interests lobby the public and we'll tell out politicians what to do.
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Agree and kind of agree.

It depends. We learned from the British 100 years ago that it is easier, cheaper, and more dependable to bribe third world countries to get our way than to threaten, intimidate, and ultimately invade and occupy them. We must compete with wealthy enemies like China who is spreading a lot of money around.
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Agree!

Dude, Clinton allowed the Europeans to handle their own affairs until they proved incompetent and then we went into Bosnia and settled the situation and then we left. He won the war with Serbia with airpower alone and without a single US casualty. He backed North Korea down. He got us out of Somalia where the people we were trying to help shit all over us. He eliminated Iranian WMDs with no-fly zones and inspectors on the ground. He tried to kill bin Ladin twice with cruise missile strikes years before 9/11. he sent troops to stabilize Haiti which was on the verge of anarchy.
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...not informed on the subject.

Easier said than done. China and other international traders don't have to cooperate with us. There is a give and take. We take advantage of our international military reach all of the time. China takes advantage of its cheap labor.

Nonsense. America produces about 17 billion bales of cotton a year and is the world's largest exporter of cotton. China is the worlds largest importer. We make a lot of money selling cotton to China and India.

Likewise America has a steel industry. We produce 86 billion tons a year and are the third largest steel producer in the world.

Has it ever been different? We must accept that the post-WWII situation where America was overwhelmingly the biggest and most powerful nation at everything is over. Other countries have blossomed and taken away a few things that we once led at. But we still lead in most things, are still the biggest economy, and by far the post influential and power country the planet has ever known.
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Agree!

Indeed. And corporations are NOT people.
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Agree, but no one said they were.

Until the electoral college is done away with, a third party will never be able to emerge.
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Disagree. Viable third parties will emerge in accordance with Duverger's law.

red55 · Sep 25, 2012

Atreus21 said: ↑

Disagree. Viable third parties will emerge in accordance with Duverger's law.
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Duverger's law is a principle which asserts that a plurality rule election system tends to favor a two-party system.

The electoral college is a winner-take-all plurality rule system that does not require a majority of popular votes to produce a winner.

Thus, Duverger's law agrees with me that the electoral college inhibits the emergence of a third party.

Atreus21 · Sep 25, 2012

red55 said: ↑

Duverger's law is a principle which asserts that a plurality rule election system tends to favor a two-party system.

The electoral college is a winner-take-all plurality rule system that does not require a majority of popular votes to produce a winner.

Thus, Duverger's law agrees with me that the electoral college inhibits the emergence of a third party.
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Well true, but that only pertains to presidential races.

red55 · Sep 25, 2012

Atreus21 said: ↑

Well true, but that only pertains to presidential races.
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A significant third party must be able to break into a Presidential race. This is why the libertarians, the greens, and other parties have never amounted to much. They just can't muster any electoral votes at all.

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I am an American ( Not Republican or Democrat)

Winston1 Founding Member

Atreus21 Founding Member

red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

Atreus21 Founding Member

red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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