How do we sleep when our Mosque is burning?

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by LaSalleAve, Nov 29, 2010.

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  1. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    again when you repeat a lie, you are not lying if you believe it.

    there is a difference between a lie and the act of lying. lying is saying a lie, knowing it is untrue.

    the statement "jesus is lord" is a lie. if i say it, i dont mean it, so i am not lying. if you say it, you actually believe it, so you are not lying. if barack obama says it, he is lying because he knows it to be untrue and is intending to trick people.

    your statement, supa, was one of belief. you said "i believe...". and you do believe that crap. so you are not lying, even though what you believe is untrue lies.
     
    martin, Nov 30, 2010
    #21
  2. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    When you repeat a lie, you are lying.

    What foolishness. By your definition, you may lie all the time as long as you are ignorant, stupid, misguided, or daft, which somehow transforms it into the truth. :insane:

    This is at odds with your own oft-stated religious objections.

    The logical fallacy here is so obvious as to require no rebuttle. You essentially are saying that there can be no lies. Man, Supa really got you to shuck and jive. :lol:

    Naaa, Supa caught you in a conundrum. Now you are suggesting that there are true lies and untrue lies. :lol: But we are no fooled.

    You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what "truth" is. I have long known this. It should be no surprise that this distorts your understanding of it's antonym.
     
    red55, Nov 30, 2010
    #22
  3. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    not if you believe it. as a guy who likes to be strict with definitions, you should know this.

    it dosent make it true, it makes you not a liar. did you lose you ability to understand any nuance?

    i dont follow. this is quite simple. supa isnt lying because he believes he is telling the truth. he is simply wrong.

    again, there is a difference between a statement, and a person. one is a liar when one says a statement that is a lie. man, i cant believe i have to explain this to an adult.

    i wish you didnt pretend to disagree with me sometimes. it hurts our message-board friendship.

    clearly you understand the difference between supafan and jimmy swaggart. one is sincere, one isnt. one is motivated by trickery and money, the other isnt. even though they might both tell you that they love jesus.
     
    martin, Nov 30, 2010
    #23
  4. SabanFan

    SabanFan The voice of reason

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    So if I forward an email without sourcing it, it's OK as long as believe the content?
     
    SabanFan, Nov 30, 2010
    #24
  5. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    you certainly are not a liar, you are just wrong and you should do better research in order to not be wrong.
     
    martin, Nov 30, 2010
    #25
  6. SabanFan

    SabanFan The voice of reason

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    But I believe it.
     
    SabanFan, Nov 30, 2010
    #26
  7. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    yes, that is why my criticism of you is always so appropriate. i know you are an unpstanding honest man, so i always call you out for being lazy with info. i never say you are lying, because you are not.

    nobody here really lies, except maybe the truthers, and that is what is so vexing, because i cant tell if they are serious or if they believe what they are saying. it is mind boggling what people can convince themselves to believe.
     
    martin, Nov 30, 2010
    #27
  8. USMTiger

    USMTiger Founding Member

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    That's because you are Sheeple, Man! Sheeeeeeeple!!!!
     
    USMTiger, Nov 30, 2010
    #28
  9. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    There are definitions that back up you and others that back up me. We can't argue semantics on this one.

    Lie –noun
    1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.

    2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture:

    3. an inaccurate or false statement.

    –verb (used without object)
    1. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.

    2. to express what is false; convey a false impression.​

    Nuance. A thing is either a truth or a lie. What nuance?

    Supa may tell a lie because he is is misguided, but it is still a lie and does not become truth because of his beliefs. You have argued this point with him many times on religious topics and now you contradict yourself, as Supa has pointed out.

    The definitions are clear and posted above. And I'm glad that you agree with me -- one is a liar when one says a statement that is a lie.

    I pretend nothing. WTF are you talking about? Supa caught you contradicting yourself and SabanFan and I are piling on. You do it all the time, amigo.

    You always try to redefine commonly understood words and terms when caught in logic traps. Motivation and sincerety is not mentioned in any definition of the noun or the verb.

    Hitler was known to lie with great sincerity. He probably believed it, too. So you cannot consider him to be a liar. Neither can you consider Obama one. Nobody can. Because your twisted and distorted definition of the word "lie" forces one to asses the motivation and sincerity of the liar (something no one can really know) rather than the truth of the matter.
     
    red55, Nov 30, 2010
    #29
  10. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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    Red you should have been a lobbyist or a lawyer, it is damn near impossible to argue with you.
     
    LaSalleAve, Nov 30, 2010
    #30
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