Thanks, Paradise, for maintaining some semblance of realism here. I was certainly disappointed by the news, but frankly, not surprised. Also couldn't post last week. Here's my objective take. First, if you go to TBait.com, there's actually a good piece (although probably a tad negative in spin) by Lazare that goes back in history to observe the number of LSU recruits in the Rivals top 150 signed since something like the early 2000s. If you're being objective, frankly, LSU has NEVER been able to wrap up all of the "really good" players in the state going back to the Brady days... probably even if you went back in the Dale Brown era, you'd find that LSU has not historically done well in N.O. where Gathers is from. Remember that even in Brady's time, his only "good run" came from local B.R. products in Brandon Bass, Tasmin, Glen Davis... Tyru Thomas was a recruiting gem that he stumbled on. In Trent's time, there have been far fewer targets, b/c of Katrina, and really in the past 3 years, there have only been 3 or so top 150 kids... Matt Derenbecker being the highest rated (signed by LSU), and two other kids that went elsewhere (Markel Brown and Shavon Coleman, that arguably played the same position as Derenbecker and/or Ralston Turner, who Trent picked up from AL). So, in recent times, Trent just hasn't had the targets to go after. If he sat on his LA laurels, he would have ignored the MS kids in Stringer, O'Bryant, and Turner (all legit Rivals top 150 type guys) that he WAS able to sign. You could also argue that last year, Isaac could have arguably been on that top 150 cusp but being off the AAU circuit hurt his rankings. Fast forward to this year. My take on the recruitment of Ricardo Gathers is frankly, coming from the family he's from (note that he has lots of family both on West and East coasts... Ricardo Gathers Commits To St. John's Basketball, Not Returning To Bay Area - SB Nation Bay Area - just note that Mike Montgomery, ironically a Trent mentor, and CAL also lost out on Gathers, not just LSU), LSU had very long odds on landing him. He is one of the more decorated recruits, though, from LA in a while so this stings, but again as a N.O. kid, with no real LSU ties, it was going to be a hard sell. Also, from the things the kid was saying in interviews and what not, fleeing to St. Johns/Big East and getting out of LA was imminent--here was a kid talking about transferring to Findlay Prep in NV for Christsakes, as the top kid in LA on a All-State winning team! To make matters worse, when he started doing well on the AAU circuit and various "big" names with spotlights on them, like Arizona, Big East schools, St. Johns started calling, frankly, that's always been the hard thing for some LA kids to pass up. Just like when USC would get every year one or two top kids that LSU just didn't have a shot at (that analogy is even more true when you consider LSU/SEC football is at the pinnacle of college football, and SEC/LSU basketball is not at the pinnacle of college basketball--yet). I also just think that not every LA kid is all about his state or community, and perhaps there are just more factors pulling a kid out of state, as opposed to keeping him in. So, frankly, I'm not surprised (until the SEC is back on top in hoops and LSU is contending for upper echelon SEC status) that LSU only lands a few of the top LA kids every year. We need kids that are good enough to play in the SEC, team players, and that want to near home, family, etc. I have quietly thought to myself, actually, that Malik Morgan, was a much more important get than Gathers in 2012. Javan Felix, might as well be an important signing, if nothing else for the St. Augustine connections, and the fact that you can never have too many good, smart PGs--but, there again, the talk from Felix seems to be he doesn't want to compete with Stringer/Hickey! We'll see how much these local kids want to compete with other good young recruits that Trent has brought in and put LSU back on the map. Gathers was also guy that also interestingly a riskier college player projection--is he going to do the same things in college as a "tweener" that he can do in high school? It remains to be seen, but could he be more like an Eugene Edgerson from several years back? A 6'6-7", 230 ish kid with sort of a 3/4 game, that signed with Arizona out of N.O. and played meaningful minutes, but was more of a 5 ppg, 5 rpg guy over his college career? I personally think that with Morgan, you know what you're getting a 6'4" SG, who can shoot and score--frankly, under Trent, he could be a second coming of Marcus Thornton (who was never a Rivals top 150 kid). He comes in to play with Turner, who will be a Jr, and Isaac as a combo guy, when he comes in, and will add instant depth in a scoring role. Morgan is the guard prospect I'd like to sign most. What worries me a little bit right now, is certainly though that LSU needs to land a good class in 2012, when it has a little foundation started to keep positive momentum going forward. The X factor is Morgan (with LSU alumni family), and to some extent, what in-roads are Trent making with MS and TX recruits? For example, Devonte Pollard/T. Howard are both forwards that list LSU from MS, and I would think they know Stringer, O'Bryant from AAU ball. If we're losing the "top" kids in LA, but signing the "top" MS, AL, TX kids from surrounding LSU recruiting grounds, I'd say it's a push really (and to some extent, Brady's inability to go out of state led to his downfall). Frankly, at some level, the kids need to want to come to LSU, just as much as LSU wants the kids to come. I'd ideally like to see a class with one or two LA kids, and some kids from OOS in 2012. Getting a pretty decent center/forwards are key, to go along with a nice guard, for the future. As has been said, LSU and Trent have shown an ability to win with 3*/4* talent, and frankly, until we're in the tourney more consistently, it's hard to see us recruit at the same level as UK, Big East schools, consistently. I had my hopes up for a Gathers surprise, but as Paradise says, it's the overall war we have to win, not every individual battle. :geauxtige:bball::geauxtige P.S. I'd also be somewhat in the mode for this year, that we'll be recruiting up until the end of 2011-2012. As we saw with last year, guys like Anthony Hickey Jr. ARE available in the spring. If LSU is able to show good improvement this season, I have a feeling Trent and staff will be very active recruiting throughout the year... So, it's not over until the ink dries in April 2012.
6-7ish, 230, strong as an ox, above average athleticism (small for PF but the Athleticism makes up for it), seems to be a streak jump shooter but can rebound at a high rate and push some people around down low and he's from Louisiana...How did we miss this guy? We didn't, I just described Storm Warren! My point Ricardo Gathers was not a make or break recruit...It hurt a little that he decided to go elsewhere cause he's a top 50 guy and he's from Louisiana but CTJ's recruiting success or lack of success (depending how you look at it) shouldn't hinge on Ricardo Gathers...JOB(#46 rivals) was ranked around the same area that Gathers (#34 rivals) was and a lot of people are ripping CTJ saying he can't land big recruits. The year isn't over, lets wait and see!
I'll keep this short. Ouch. Although, I think most pundits acknowledged that Felix was not that into LSU as well and was not coming here as soon as Hickey was signed. It's not a great start to 2012 recruiting for sure. Although, as I mentioned before, given our needs in this class, it's hard to say Felix was a must have for the Tigers given two young PGs ahead of him. That said clearly, we're not at the point as a program where good players WANT to come and sit behind others on a stacked team at LSU. Felix going to UT is in some ways worse than when DJ Augustin did it. DJ was going to have a chance to play right away with Durant, and he was a much better player. Felix, a solid but lower regarded recruit, is a joining a team with some uncertainty, and a very young and much more highly regarded PG in the 2011 class. He is likely to simply be in the practice rotation and I'm not sure I ever see him as a starter, with some of the guys UT usually land. Granted, UT basketball is at a higher "state" of respect than LSU is right now, and it's not a surprise just from the standpoint of two programs. It'll be interesting to watch Felix and Gathers as times goes on.
oh, and according to Rivals reporters on the UT site, and before folks start lambasting Trent or LSU in this process, this is what Felix had to say ... For Felix, a 5-11, 180-pound guard, going to UT has been a dream for some time. In fact, ever since he stepped foot on the Texas campus as a youngster he's wanted to wear the burnt orange. Today, his dream school chose him. "He chose me," said Felix of UT head basketball coach Rick Barnes. "He chose me out of a lot guards. He just felt like I was the best one. Texas has been a dream school since the ninth grade when I came to UT for an elite camp. That's always been a school I've had a good feeling about. The time came and they started recruiting me it felt right." I think we sometimes perhaps have an overinflated view here of where LSU seems to stand in the basketball pecking order. Felix was likely not dreaming of himself in the P&G ever, with Trent or not, frankly. I'm sure it's that way for other kids. For other kids though, like John Isaac or Darrell Mitchell, perhaps it's different and we just need to find those guys. I think the interesting trend/phenomenon that both Brady and Johnson have encountered in recruiting is "overshooting" their targets. Does LSU stick with the solid recruit who really is interested in LSU and just land him? Or, do they stay after national recruits that are only marginally interested in LSU? Certainly, if they don't go after national recruits, the fans give them flack--but then, as we've seen from the Butlers of the world, national recruits aren't always what's good for your program (UT is frankly a good example of that). I'm feeling like, until Trent can show what this team can do this year, and his coaching staff can prove they can coach up some players, many top names will be hesitant on LSU. It's unfortunately kind of a difficult cycle for a struggling team, and they need something to break the cycle. Either a big recruit to step up and make the call, or as a team, win and provide legitimacy to the program.
Either a big recruit to step up and make the call, or as a team, win and provide legitimacy to the program. I think this is the key. Scratch, claw, and grind out some wins, gel as a team, get to SEC and NCAA tourneys, make some noise, and rebuild the reputation through effort. The results will follow.
Fellows, I know its good to be positive & I'm tryin but look. We finished near the bottom the last two years, we just lost the two biggest name recruits in Louisiana & we have lost four roster players since last year. Yes I think this team will be better but now we are gonna be trying to compete in the SEC with only 10 scholarship players. Now I'm not saying thats all Trents fault but somewhere someone has got to step up & stop the bleeding. This is kinda like two steps forward & two steps back. The more the big guys turn away from LSU the more the little guys will be looking elsewhere also.. I am a big basketball fan & I want them to have success as much as anyone. after the last two years I was really looking forward to some success this year both on the court & in recruiting. Now I just gotta negative feeling that is hard to overcome. Heres hoping things get better fast. Do you feel as good about the program as you did say two months ago?
Not ready to just give up on Trent, but the outlook is bleak. I'm not really sure how many better options are out there right now anyway.
recruiting Oops, quoted DD on the players left, he said 10 but I count 12 looking at the roster. Sorry bout that. I agree that no one can make players come to LSU that want to go elsewhere & we just gotta move on. Would love to Have Devonte Pollard but he has offers from Duke, Georgetown & Kentucky. No way I see LSU gettin him. Milak Morgan same size & same position as Issac but is a possibility I think. Most of the other guys are a long way from Louisiana & thats gonna make it double tough. Sure would be great to see us get somebody really good to get the ball rolling. On Trents future I think this recruiting year is gonna make or break him & its not gettin off to a good start for sure. This years team needs to be greatly improved & I think it will be. We also need a very good recruiting class to create interest for the future or its gonna be over for Trent. :geaux:
All good points, and legitimate question. If I'm answering honestly, probably not, based upon Gathers going elsewhere and Derenbecker having his issues. On the other hand, reports were good from Italy, we've got some new offensive philosophies in place, we have the first McD AA to come to LSU since 2005, and we have some subtle changes on the coaching staff (i.e., Nance/Pablo are out and Robinson/Filo are in). So, as we all probably knew, it still all comes down to results on the court and how they look this year. As a recruit, I still wouldn't get too down on Trent and would separate the fan "angst" from reality. Let's try to remember that as a head coach, Trent projects a different image to recruits than say Brady did. Trent is respected, he's not a coaching joke (COY in 3 leagues), he's sent a very good number of players to the pros. I'd safely say, more than Anthony Grant, more than Mike Anderson. So, there's still something of substance there. He's had certainly not set the world on fire with his recruiting, but at the same time, he's recruited some players I think that would have never come here with Brady in charge. The question is, is that enough to effect a change and what kind of change is expected. If you go back and look at how his records have fared in the turn around stories at Nevada and Stanford, this should be a NIT or NCAA post season year. If he does that, I think folks can say, Trent knows what he's doing and now that his players (keep in mind, we have a solid nucleus of Hamilton, O'Bryant, Turner, Isaac, Stringer, Hickey plus decent role players of Ludwig, Courtney for a minimum of 2 more years) are in the system, there's a baseline. It's probably taken a little longer than folks have liked, and given 2012 recruiting, there's also a question of whether that's sustainable. Those are certainly important issues that will play out this season--so while I'm a little taken aback by the issues of this week, I'm also of the mind set, let the season play out--as everyone knows ALOT can happen during the course of a season. If LSU doesn't make some sort of post season play, I think everyone has a right to really look hard at options. But, if you look at Trent's past track record, and strip away the fan angst, you still have to respect the man as a coach, and his ability to relate to players. Very few players are out there privately lambasting the man, like they did with Brady. I'd say let's not get caught up in the noise, and let's focus on fundamentals. As for recruiting, I'd be ok with a reasonably solid class in 2012, as long as we're building the local relationships in 2013 and beyond, and our performance on the court is improving. A class with Morgan, maybe one or two good out of state players of some notariety and/or a sleeper/late Spring signee, would bridge LSU over until kids (and more local BR kids, at that) like Bridgewater and Jarrell Martin can make a more informed call on LSU. I'd also love to see LSU add a significant player on the staff, with more local ties--love to get a former NBA LSU alumn who can develop the ties for the long-haul.
