It is correct that with the last 2010 schollie provided to KC Ross Miller, there is only one 2011 schollie to give, and that's already spoken for by John Isaac. Now, originally in November, post signings from Stringer, Turner, Derenbecker and Courtney, there was some thought that Trent may save the last 2010 schollie and roll it into 2011, so that he could find someone to sign along with Isaac. However, given the season so far, and the fact that KC Ross Miller is available and interested, Trent decided to sign another kid in 2010. Now, as you mention, there is always the possibility that someone leaves the LSU team. At this stage most of the talk is just that--skuttlebutt. One could potentially see a fair amount of compeition at the PG and SG spots, with Spencer, Bass, Dotson, Stringer, Turner and now Miller all vying for PT there. Hence there's been some speculation that Chris Bass may not be here after the season. I personally think though, that this is not Trent's style and he'll see Chris Bass as still a worthwhile contributor on this team. His belief is that depth is key and even if some of these kids are not starting, they will be helping in practices, and pushing each other. I will not assume that folks are leaving until they've announced it. As for the recruiting, 2012 in LA is the much deeper class. 2011 really doesn't have a ton of depth. Isaac is probably considered a top 100 kind of kid, and I'm not sure there's another "high profile" LA recruit in 2011. In 2012, LSU will have a good number of schollies to fill and that's good timing for LA recruits.
I don't think this would be a bad thing. LSU basketball is still in transition period. The sooner CTJ's players are here playing his style the better. What you have actually said above is that those starters from this year aren't good enough to start or play because better players are on the way. That is a good thing! No, the circumstances are quite different actually. Players leave early all the time but it is the circumstances that surround it that makes the difference.
Explain how the circumstances of a player leaving makes a difference to the NCAA. Not being wise at all - I don't understand. I didn't think the reason made a difference. Seems you are saying that if two or three scholarship basketball players leave before next year It will not penalize LSU & they will have those scholarships open for next year to recruit more players?
No, what I am saying is that sometimes when you change the direction of a program and go with a coaching change players leave even if it is a year or so into the transition. Sometimes it is better for players with attitudes or a different mindset than the new coaching staff to leave or the fact that they might leave because of lack of playing time. I went off of what you have said in your posts here. I understand one of the scholarship players from the former regime leaving might leave an open spot on the team but I think the team will be better off for it provided the new regime is able to recruit good or better players. I would be more concerned after 5 to 10 years of CTJ being at LSU if players left like they did during the last regime. That is the different circumstances that I have talked about here. I expect a rough few years for the transition period. I don't expect that to happen once CTJ establishes his program.
there is a limit to the # of players that can be signed in a certain timeframe (3 yrs?) not just a limit to the # of scholarships on a team. so if a player leaves early by draft or transfer, etc it counts against that # and the team may not be able to replace that player.
I think all of the above is true. Circumstances surrounding players leaving are important. Are they leaving b/c they are just wanting more PT and don't want to compete with others? Are they leaving b/c they don't believe that they are being utilized properly or coached up by the staff (e.g., Magnum Rolle, Ross Neltner)? Are they leaving b/c the prospects of the NBA and not getting better if they stay (e.g., Tyrus Thomas, Glen Davis)? Are they just leaving for discplinary or academic reasons (e.g., Delwan Graham)? Lastly, there are times when players leave b/c there's an implicit "mutual" decision that it's in the best interest of the player and coach, either when the coach first comes in, or where the team might be in state of "transition." But, to TomC's point, I don't think the APR rating distinguishes as to why a player leaves... just that he does. In any case, I think given Trent's stated belief that LSU comes first and that these kids are above else, owed an education, I don't see him telling one of his players to leave just because it would benefit LSU to free up a spot for another player. While there are arguments as to why Bass might leave, he was Trent's first "Trent" recruit. He is an athletic player, who is unfortunately not shown that he's a great shooter. Some of his FT shooting and his jumpshot is just mental, and I've got to think that the new practice facility at LSU is ideal for a kid like this, if he wants to put in the work to get better. As we saw in the Vanderbilt game, I don't think you can overlook the need for players to stay all of four years and get better. If we give up on kids like Garrett Green (who played pretty well at Vanderbilt with 3-5, with 6 points and 6 rebounds) and Chris Bass (who played a lot of minutes and guards well), I don't think we're accomplishing our long term goal of graduating players first and developing a more stable, consistent winning program, second. I think this off season for the likes of Garrett Green, Aaron Dotson, Chris Bass & Dennis Harris will be huge for LSU's program. I certainly haven't given up on these guys, and I see them still being hugely important for the success of LSU next year.
As a novice in terms of roster limits... what happens to the walk-ons who have played a lot of minutes next year when we have a full allotment of scholarship players? Are guys like Populist and Kinsley sent packing or do they just stop dressing, but still practice with the team?
Ah, a fellow novice...Tiger in Hornland, what do you think about giving us novices a tutorial. That would be a great thing for Trent Johnson, or one of his assistants to do here at TF wouldn't it. Help LSU turn into a basketball school by raising our collective IQ. I bet Dale Brown could do this without criticizing or second guessing the coach. I have a customer at the cafe who could do this also...he's a coach who used to play basketball under Dale Brown in the early 70's. Any one else think we could benefit from a forum dedicated to explaining the intricacies of LSU basketball?
Ah, where to be begin. where to begin. Honestly a large part of it is just enjoying players do the fundamentals, passing, catching, shooting, rebounding and playing hard defense. The second level is moving without the ball, moving the ball around the court like the team knows what to do with it, and schemes that showcase the coaches' systems--this can be more subtle. Like most coaches' preference for straight man to man, if taught well and executed well with great athletes, still the tried and true defense (Trent's preference) since that's what asked for most in the NBA, and as a result of that, a myriad of offensive sets based upon screening, cutting and finding the open shot against the man. But some coaches live and die by the zone or match up zones, b/c it's contrarian and exposes teams to things they don't see often. The third level then is recognizing how the schemes match up, and how good or not good the players are playing it, and whether certain schemes really expose certain players/teams. Fourth level of fun is just certain game time decisions and plays that happen in a span of seconds that decide the outsome of the game. Basketball is a game, more so than football and baseball (in my opinion), can be decided by rapid fire plays decided in split seconds (e.g., CJ's many last second heroics for example). At the outset, you've got a collection of fewer players that on some level of talent or team is going to compete within a coach's system. But, from there, it's will, how hard and well they're playing as a team, whether the shots are falling, and whether and how your will can be imposed on the other team. Unlike football and baseball, I love basketball for the mix of pure athleticism, pace of game and action, the interplay of the players on the court at any time, and how close and personal the game is determined by only 5 players on the court at any point in time. Not sure what would be useful for the fans to improve the following, but bottomline, start from the beginning and follow Trent's team! As for recruiting, I was interested to learn that not ALL is quiet for Trent in 2011. We talked about the philosophy of "going after" 5 star players in another thread on the Tigers' Den. As I mentioned, Trent's philosophy in 2010 was to build a foundation, but NO ONE should assume that he's not pursuing big time players. He's just of the mindset that some players are just not going to go to LSU. He can OFFER those players and invite them to LSU for visits, but those offers are not always seriously taken--and, this is something I was always critical of Brady for--don't neglect those 3-4 star kids that DO take LSU seriously. The kids that are still most likely to come to LSU are kids from the state of LA and surrounding states, that like Trent, the team, the system, and the idea of what LSU can become. It'd be silly for Trent to spend all of his time chasing a kid like John Wall, if there's no reciprocal interest on the player's part. However, when a player within the surrounding states is in play (and I continue to say that LSU's sweet spot is Dallas, Houston, perhaps central/San Antonio, TX, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Atlanta, GA, and the ocassional Seattle (due to Trent's strong ties there), West coast, Florida, Mid-Atlantic or Midwest recruit thrown in), Trent IS making a play for them--whether they get drawn to another part of the country or a "basketball" school is often the hit or miss part of the equation. Case in point, 5 star Cleveland, MS 6'9" 235lb PF Johnny O'Bryant, is one of the few 5 stars in this area for 2011. LSU HAS OFFERED him, according to Rivals--despite there being perhaps not enough schollies, if everyone stays in 2010-2011. In fact, just learned that Johnny was in Baton Rouge to take in the LSU vs Kentucky game, the same game that recent commit, KC Ross Miller, was at. See: http://lsu.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1055590 "I want to feel comfortable with the playing style, the depth at the school and knowing that I will get early playing time is also an important consideration," he said. Often times, hoops recruits just blow through town, with little fanfare. I hope LSU and the LSU fan community will continue to increase the awareness that these kids need to see that LSU support for all of its sports--because often times they're there .watching when the fans don't know they're there. Bryant is likely to be considering a ton of different schools (has over 20 offers and is looking hard at GA Tech, and visiting SEC schools) and right now LSU does not appear to be a leader--but who knows? But, the fact that kids like this are visiting LSU, is nice to see, and it shows that Trent is doing what he needs to do to build a recruiting base. Honestly, if I'm Bryant, I'm seeing the fact that most of LSU's big men will be gone by the time he comes in, he'll have Malcolm White to play along side for one year, and he'll have a ton of good perimeter players (including MS native Andre Stringer) who will provide him a balanced outside attack. 2011 could still get interesting, folks....
