This is getting confusing... I know, I know, I stay confused. First I hear that TJ wants only good program players that want to be at LSU & also will stay for the full ride & improve as they go. Now I am hearing that he is possibly working & waiting on The Fab Five from the N.O. area. Isn't that a contradication in a way? I am just waiting for the time Louisiana has several great high school All Americans. No way TJ would pass on them because they are to good?? See what I mean... I just think you recruit your home state real hard & first, then you look for other players from wherever that you want & get them if you can. You take the best players you can get at all times unless your are up against a NCAA dropout rule of some kind which I have read yes & no on that. I still think there are lots of great players out there for us to get & hopefully TJ will get his share soon. Its just been kinda slow since he got here on the recruiting front. Just waiting impatiently to see whats gonna happen. :huh:
First, let's be clear, Trent's not talked about the Fab 5 in 2012, nor has he said much about 2011 for that matter--us recruiting junkies are guessing what he's doing. Trent's very tight lipped generally about his recruiting. He's only really talked about 2010, very generally. He has said that he wants to recruit LA first, and said that when he first got on board. I think through last year, he did that... he offered Ludwig, he kept in touch with Derenbecker as a result, he offered Galloway and Williams early. He contacted and introduced himself to (but may not have offered) others, such as Swilling, Markel Brown, and others. He did certainly scout them. But, somewhere along the line, and after playing one season in the SEC, I think either Trent realized the caliber of athlete/player he needed in his system, or he in discussions with various folks about and around town, got the feeling that both Galloway and Williams might not fit as well or may not want to fit, in the LSU system. Recruiting is a two-way street. So far, the press has at least intimated that he's emphasizing Derenbecker (presumably b/c his skill set and size fit better in LSU's system, than a "tweener" guard in Galloway and an athletic but less skilled SF who would be trying to convert to a 2 guard in Williams), and he's gravitated more toward Stringer (more of a prototypical point) and Turner (better shooting 2). I think implicitly (perhaps, and of course, all we're doing is speculating) he's saying he now has to recruit "nationally" to make sure we're getting the best available talent for his system. Quite frankly, Brady and Butch came to exact same conclusion, which is you cannot always win on LA talent alone b/c of the eb and flow of what you get every year. For example, that's why Courtney was such a key get--we do not have many quality "bigger" guys in the 2010 class in LA. In any case, I don't think it's contradictory what is happening, I just think recruiting can be a tricky matter. You do want to create an environment where the best of LA feels that LSU is a place they can go, but at the same time have the ability to go OOS. In this case, Galloway and Williams had the opportunity to say yes to Trent, but didn't. I don't really blame Trent for losing these guys if (1) he ultimately felt the MS and AL recruits WERE better for his system, and (2) he gave offers and gave the kids every opportunity to say yes. There are some that probably will feel loyalty to LA players with a "sign at all costs" mentality, but I'm not sure that's necessarily best for the program either. Now, I think clearly John Isaac fits within the LSU system with his size, skills and versatility at the 2 position, and I have no doubts that Ricardo Gathers will as well. You ultimately have to look at the recruiting landscape objectively and in an unbiased way. You pick your preferred targets and go after them hard. What will be more troubling is if we repeatedly see misses on the (real) targets that Trent sets his sights on. So far, it's hard to say if Noel Johnson, Demarcus Cousins, etc. are misses. Derenbrecker, Stringer and Turner, we're all watching.
Nick Saban made it cool to play for LSU and locked up the border. It will take more time for Coach Johnson (or any coach) to achieve that in basketball and he will have to make consistent noise with the talent he has and can get to gain credibility with a lot of the more talented players. Coaching basketball at LSU seems like a tough job with the atmosphere that currently exists in the sport.
Great reply guys... Mostly just trying to stir up some action in this thread & hoping I can learn something at the same time.. I know I am just gonna have to wait like everyone else for the next big basketball recruit.. Oh, Nice article in the Advocate about the basketball program - about doing it the right way. The "Right Way" is open for much discussion so far.. :lol:
I think that as for as long as I've been on these boards, and as long as Brady was in trouble as a coach, there's been this discussion of what does it take to get LSU where it needs to be in basketball (i.e., presumably back to where Daddy Dale had it in the 80s'). "Lock up" the LA borders and everything will take care of itself, continues to be this vogue thought given where the football and baseball programs have come. Well, after many years of internal debate, I just have to say that ultimately, it's just not that easy in basketball. Can what's happening with Miles and Mainieri happen with hoops? I'd like to agree with you (for the record, Saban had it ALOT easier in football than Trent has it in basketball), but I just don't know--partly b/c is the SEC the ACC or Big East of hoops? Not the same way that SEC is king in football and now, I think, baseball. For as long as I can remember, even a master recruiter like Brown had to go out of state for hoops--and there were plenty of kids from LA who went out of state. Whereas in football, kids grow up in LA dreaming of playing for LSU, in Death Valley, or now, it can be said the same about Alex Box. It's just not the same about Deaf Dome... at least for the recent age. Now, does that mean it can't be done? NO. But, it's certainly an uphill battle. It's going to take time. The SEC TV package translating to hoops will help. Kentucky and Calipari probably helps--but ultimately it takes the growth and prominence of say 4-5 teams in our league to consistent success to make an impression in today's recruits' minds (I'd like to think that those are Kentucky, Florida, Tennessee in the East, and LSU, Arkansas and perhaps Miss St in the West). It requires the real efforts of SEC ADs, and our league getting back to going to the final four consistently, to help elevate the SEC as a whole. But, deep down in the hearts of LA hoops players, LSU has to be a hot destination again. Trent's consistently winning, improving, Fans coming out and supporting hoops the same way they do for football and baseball, facilities to match other top programs, is all necessary to get the LSU basketball team there where they need to be. It, like recruiting, is just going to be a gradual process. I think Trent is a good guy to lead that charge, it'll be up to some recruits and the community to accelerate that process. :geauxtige :thumb:
Real good point there. Until the SEC, as a whole, becomes popular like the ACC or Big East; Its going to be difficult to attract national caliber recruits to LSU. You can argue that winning coaches can attract top flight recruits, but until the fan interest is there, the kids are going to go where the national glory is. Where the press is, that's where the national fan interest is because the press dictates where the "cool" basketball conferences are. It's kind of like the situation in pop music. The DJ's (press) tell the public what is good and what is not. I mean, were the Monkees and Spice Girls really that good or did the public get told by the radio stations (press) that they were good? Maybe the answer is the same as what went on in the music industry. Are there NCAA regulations against "payola"? .
LSU doesn't need to recruit nationally, we need to recruit regionally. For example, it would be a big jolt to sign a top 100 point guard like Stringer from Mississippi. LSU and Bama seem to be his two top choices, so it is certainly a realistic option. Similarly, Turner from Bama seems to be realistic as well. Not saying we're the favorites for those guys (I have no idea), but we certainly seem to have decent chances. If we get those two and Derenbecker, it will be a great foundation for the future of LSU basketball, and a very successful recruiting year.
For the record, I agree with you. I've never been a guy to say, we have to wrap up all of these national recruits. But, I believe that to truly be a national caliber program, LSU has to be able to cast a net, like it does in Football or Baseball, in more than LA. I think realistically, if you go around the state within a 6-8 hour driving radius, you hit TX, MS, AL, GA, and you throw in the occassional recruit from beyond (and we do get them, Dotson from WA, Johnson from VA, Farrer from AZ), you have a LOT to choose from still year in and year out. I also think that LA could get you say 50-60% there. If you got the best kids from LA that you wanted to go to LSU year in and year out, there's no denying that LSU could be very good. Imagine what DJ Augustin, Greg Monroe could have done for Brady's time at LSU... quite frankly, if he had landed those guys, he'd probably still be here. But, I don't think your recruiting base can solely rely on LA, b/c you are going to miss out sometimes on those guys. In 2010, there was no LA player of that kind of magnitude. It's a deep class that's pretty good (it goes probably 6-7 Div I high major prospects deep), but no top 50 players. That's why you go to Turner, who some have rated pretty high. You recruit kids like Pressey, Jelan Kendrick, Trey Zeigler. But, are they really going to come? Not until the SEC and LSU are national names again, as I said above, in my opinion. So, you have to build with local/regional kids that really want to come to LSU and as you prove your program is here to stay, that Trent can get you to the League and you will find consistent success, and the LSU program will improve, become consistent and climb in the minds of recruits. Where I think you really get into a debate, is where Gumbo was alluding, which is how good do you have to recruit if you want to win a NC? Truth be told, LSU has success in football and baseball, b/c they have top 5 recruiting classes. If you have NC caliber talent, you have a chance to win the NC. Now, those programs, have the AD support, fan base, and the "capital" to get the coaches to GET the classes. Trent needs more time to see if he can be that guy, but as I said earlier, ALL of these factors have to play into LSU ever getting there. Can you win, as Gumbo puts it with a team full of 3-4 year "mid-major" players, or are the Kentucky's of the world, with Coaches like Calipari, going to inherit the earth? IMO, you need at least a few impact players at the caliber of a NBA draft pick to truly compete at the highest levels (that doesn't mean every McD AA, but it does mean kids like T-train, Stromile, etc). If you could win the NC without them, then programs like Xavier, Creighton, Gonzaga, would break through beyond the final 4 right? Now, you can find consistent success, like those programs have, and reach the sweet 16 year in and year out, which is admirable and much better than LSU has been, for sure. But, I think the ultimate plan for Trent has to be rebuild over the next 2-3 years and see where that leaves us... are we then landing the Greg Monroes and Augustins? Do we land the "Fab Five"? Certainly there is the talent in the deep south to make a run at the NC... but the pieces all have to be in place. :geauxtige:thumb:
i think there are too few stable top mid-major programs to really make this point. i dont know much about their recruting but id guess only xavier and gonzaga get the majority of their recruits at the 4 star level. thats what lsu can do. another important factor that may take a team that recruits like this to the promised land one year would be the unexpected development of a 2-4 star recruit, like thomas and thornton.
