Gore: Polar ice may vanish in 5-7 years

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Sourdoughman, Dec 14, 2009.

  1. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Who are "his" scientists? When did Gore say this?

    I've answered this time and again for you. Why do you keep beating a dead horse? Do you ever conceive of something new to argue? Once more . . . and I'll try to use small words.

    I agree with some of his proposals and not with others. Why? Because I can. Only a fool would imagine that believing in something means that one must blindly support every idea of every advocate out there. Some have good ideas, some don't. What I advocate is the validity of the science of the matter, not the politics of it. Let everybody pick his own politics, I don't care. I just won't let you get away with phony science here.

    You have never once offered a shred of proof that AGW is a "scam", much less offered anything substantial to support your quaint notions about rich white folks.
     
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  2. ok awesome

    ok awesome geaux

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  3. SabanFan

    SabanFan The voice of reason

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    nm
     
  4. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    you dont respond now.

    so when you say gore understands the science, what you really mean is the opposite, got it.

    you are the one who said gore understood the science. i never said he did. if you agree with me that he is full of it, then fine. you should have just said that from the start. but instead you said he was right on his science.

    which policies are supported by science that red approves of? we just established that you think gore cannot be trusted. how do we know who we can trust?

    for the record my policy is that the whole business is a non-issue. there is no politician that can be trusted on policy to manage global climate. the whole idea is obviously absurd. but red is more trusting.

    if you the think politicians can filter through the science of climate, pick a policy, enact that policy, and have that policy actually be beneficial.... i mean that is just childishly naive.
     
  5. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    You aren't paying attention very well.

    No, don't try to speak for me, it's a childish tactic. I spoke very clearly and you just don't like the answer.

    No I didn't. He understands the scientific argument on AGW, but it's not "his" science, Gore is not a scientist. He's just smart enough to read and understand it. Your transparent attempts to obfuscate and suggest agreement with you is another bush league debating maneuver, as is your silly attempt to make it appear that Gore somehow controls "his" scientists.

    "Science" doesn't support policies at all, they just reach conclusions about the evidence. I support policies that are prudent, economical, and have a high chance of success--like better stack scrubbers, shifting to alternate energy sources, and energy conservation steps. They have benefits beyond AGW like reducing foreign oil imports and upgrading to high-efficiency, modern industrial plants. I do not support far-fetched, ridiculously expensive, or ineffective--like replacing every coal plant with wind farms overnight, mandating electric cars, or prayer.

    You lie. "We" did not establish that at all. It is merely something you allege without substantiation. You have the logical progression of a spider on LSD.

    My, how convincing . . .

    I've said time and again, I'm defending that science has it right about global warming. Period.

    I do not and never have advocating each and every proposed solution, nor do I think that politicians have any answers except political ones.

    You know this. But since you can't debate the science of climate change you attempt to conflate it with the politics of climate change and then demand that I defend it. Once again . . .no.

    Come back when you have something new.
     
  6. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    the fact is you almost never answer the tough questions. you take both sides in an effort to be balanced. this thread is a nice example.

    ah. so you agree with gore about the polar ice caps. understood.


    and gore has the science right, like you just said. understood. very clear.

    there is a simple point you never seem to quite get. climate change is a politicized issue, whether red likes it or not. this is something you cannot change, you must just accept.

    all issues are politicized to some extent. if two scientists are arguing about the nature of black holes, and they both want to prove their side, and then folks start taking sides, it can be hard to sort out.

    now, when an issue can change public policy, take most of what you think is unbiased science and throw it in the garbage. because the moment you start enacting legislation based on what you beleive in science, you have rendered the science virtually useless. scientists are not perfect unbiased robots. sometimes they want to change policy. thats why some of them got into climate science. thats why they accepted positions with the ipcc and didnt resign when they saw what was happening.

    combine all that with an understanding of human nature regarding the environment and you will start making progress.

    and this last point is also something you do not get. if this is not a political issue, but is pure science, then there is really nothing to discuss, at least not in this forum. do you understand why we do not debate string theory in here? because nobody is forcing one side of the issue on to us through legislation. and that means that the debate regarding string theory can be trusted far more that climate science. when an issue is purely academic, of no real political consequence, then it can mostly be trusted. but when the united nations convenes a group of scientists and asks them for results to base policy on, you can take the whole issue, stuff it in a rocket, and shoot it to mars, because the whole debate it tarnished and useless.

    take everything i just said and magnify it 100x if the issue in question is the environment.
     
  7. Richdog

    Richdog 02 Cecilia alumni champs

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    Are these the same scientists that said we'd run out of oil before 1980?
     
  8. SabanFan

    SabanFan The voice of reason

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    Ice caps gone in 20 years? That's just Looney Toons :dis::dis:
     
  9. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Blah, Blah, blah . . . you aren't even arguing the topic anymore, it's another martin diversion to a criticism of moderates. Next you will steer it to big government and stupid white people guilt. You are becoming stale, martin.

    More childish attempts to evade my clear response. I do not agree at all.

    That's right.

    I must do nothing of the kind. The issues are politicized, but the science is science.

    Nonsense. You understand so little of science. What do you do anyway?

    :insane:

    You are really thick today, amigo. I never said it "is not a political issue, but is pure science". I said and have always maintained that there are two issues-- a scientific one and a political one. You confuse and conflate them and attempt to make one issue of them. I do not.
     
  10. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Based on what? Did you examine the entrails of chickens to determine this?
     

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