who is to blame for our insistence on not reducing our consumption? us, or them? it isnt the oil companies putting every soccer mom in america behind the wheel of an expedition. you act like somebody has a gun to your head. see how many SUVs are on the highway? we dont care. we whine, because we want whatever we can use the governemnt to get. we can take from others as long as we are not the ones who have to sacrifice. look, if gas gets so expensive that nobody can afford it, you will know it. you will see more toyota corollas on the street than expeditions. maybe thats because we really do not have a problem. we guzzle gas like it was free. we dont give a damn. ever see video of developing countries? see how many scooters and motorcycles and bicycles you see on the street? yunno why we do not have those? because we are loaded with cash and we do not need to bother with that crap. most of us can afford to fill up our SUV and drive it all by ourselves to work. i'm curious to hear what you guys drive. you are inventing a problem in order to use the government to solve it. thats how you ruin things. again, i ask, what percent of revenue do you think is a "fair" profit. i won't because it isnt relevant. that was clear criminal activity, cooking the books, lies, fraud. totally irrelevant. if you go to the gas station, and the sign clearly says the price, and you buy, where is the dishonesty? didnt you read the sign? didnt you choose to pay? it doesnt matter why it costs what it does. it wouldnt matter if the price was that high because the CEO of the company wanted to add 10 more yachts to his fleet. the gas is not yours, and you have no right to tell anyone else what it is worth. it is worth what you will pay. it is about time. it seems to me all the public wants to do is whine. they dont want to buy a motorcycle, pick up their friends on the way to work in their small sedan. they want everything, they want to drive their SUV on their 30 mile commute. and it damn well better cost what they want or they will have the government gestapo take care of it. sounds to me like somebody actually has it figured out. if only everyone thought like your friends. putting yourself in a position where you have product that people needs, that is smart. getting yourself in a position where you are addicted to that product is not. correct. who is forcing you to live in the suburbs? who has forced americans into urban sprawl? nobody. they are doing it because they can afford to. if they cannot, too bad, rethink your lifestyle, maybe if we didnt insist on using so much gas we wouldnt have to hear more whing from the environmentalists. too many people take a pro-whine stance, too few are willing to modify their own behavior. first, this idea that all products, including food, are becoming to expensive, it isnt happening. second, yes, you can buy local food. even in new york. there is a huge farmers market in union square, and every store sells jersey tomatoes and local produce. you can do one of those things where you join a local farm co-op and get fresh local food all year long, saving the environment from the use of the fuel it takes to bring in all our food from central and south americn and asia. but yunno why these things arent big? they dont need to be. we can still easily afford to pay the gas prices to ship in food from all over the place. gas inst that expensive. what is expensive is using the government to control prices, on anything.
I know plenty of people like you. You show a glaringly juvenile understanding of society and attribute any complaint as whining. I don't suggest that government should be blindly trusted, but you are foolish to think that corporations deserve that trust. We should all get over it, grow our own food, make our own clothes, etc? If you don't then you must be a lazy, greedy SUV driving soccer mom? If only it were that simple. Extremists of any kind are a danger to society. You know, society, that thing you live in? Discussions with people that are unwilling to consider multiple facets of an argument are futile. Try extrapolating your logic across the board with society. It doesn't work, and history proves you wrong. Enjoy Utopia.
that is not what i am saying. you should do exactly what you want. if that means chugging around in a tank and having lobster flown in every day for lunch from maine on a private jet, fine. if you want to buy a hundred gallons of oil a day and burn in your backyard for fun, that is fine. your life is yours. what i dont like is using the force of the government to manipulate others to allow you to do these things. you shouldnt want to force your will upon others to maintain your lifestyle. you mean the society, the culture that was diminished by urban sprawl, facilitated by cheap oil? the loss of population in urban areas, with pedestrians and actual main streets? the strip malls and generic chain fast food? the fat kids who have never walked anywhere in their lives? yeah, what a great thing for our society cheap oil is. the society that is allegedly headed for disaster brought on by the burning of cheap oil? the oil you must have cheaply so you can burn more and more of it? you might consider what happens when the government takes a more active role in the economy. history is littered with leaders who prey on people who do not want freedom, but need "protection" from free enterprise. the government will save us from horrible freedom. those evil capitalists will be the end of us. only using our collective power against the Bourgeoisie can save us, right?
You make dangerous assumptions about my lifestyle or the lifestyles of the majority of Americans. If you think I or we jet our lobster in every day, than you might consider writing for Pravda...in the 60's. It's called democracy. Govt. by the people, for the people. Sadly you were born into this. You should consider buying your own island. I will write you when you secure your island. An entirely different issue and debate. This thread is about gas prices, not the moral issue of gas usage. While related, they are not the same. Again, enjoy your island. Your implication is that my only suggestion was government regulation. I clearly stated that concessions would have to be made in the future by everyone, including the public. The world is not black and white. There are degrees of freedom and degrees of control. Your contention that free enterprise needs no holds upon it are sophomoric at best. Since it is obvious that you don't listen to any opinion that does not concur with your own extremism, again, enjoy your island.
the public will adjust without any action on the part of the government. the fallacy is that they need any help. when people cant afford gas, they will change their behavior. no manipulation is required, we should just mind our own business. all i want is that buyers and sellers are free from manipulation. that isnt very extreme.
You can say that about starving people in Africa. They are adjusting well without any help. It's called death. But it's a simple choice right? Not completely the government's responsibility or even our government, but it is up to the public. You want examples of the public suffering from unchecked free enterprise? I know, the only other option is examples of the public suffering from unchecked government intervention? Utopia beckons...
figure out the real economic freedom any any country and it will correlate pretty closely with prosperity. take a look at a list of countries ranked by economic freedom. for the most part, african countries are at the bottom, they are an example of what happens to an economy that is manipulated by a force that is neither the buyer nor the seller. this is why they are poor. the most economically free countries are singapore and hong kong. these countries are thriving. the proper policy is a system whereby buyers and sellers are free to set prices, independent of any coercion, on either side. neither buyer nor seller should ever use the force of the government to impose their will on the other.
No it is not merely an example of force influencing the economy, though force can be tied into it. It is a difference of the "haves and have nots". When the seller has everything, that's what happens. Then you may want to brush up on your mandarin and get your passport in order. Oh wait, passport? How can the government regulate your freedom to travel at will? How invasive. Interesting you say that since there was profiteering down here in Texas and Louisiana as little as a couple of years ago. Yep, I was part of the great evacuation of Houston during the hurricanes. Quite a few gas stations tried to gouge people on the price of gas. The Governor, and the Mayor had to issue a proclamation to all profiteers that they would be punished by law if caught. Quite a few were before they rest of the merchants got the message. How invasive of my government. It's a pity that the government "forced" those poor sellers to sell their gas at a reasonable rate instead of a rate that guaranteed that only a few could afford it . I actually saw a station advertising $10/gallon on the Wednesday before the hurricane. I am sure things were much worse in Louisiana. Your theories do not hold up to scrutiny. I am no proponent of big government but it is obvious that you think government, which is in fact regulation of our lives, has no place in your own. Again, I will write you once you secure your own island. Let me know if you get cable and the LSU game, and I will even visit you in Utopia.
Please explain this to me. If oil companies manipulate prices as you suggest, why do prices ever go down? How do you explain $10 oil and $1 gas 8 years ago? Oil prices were fairly low during the 80s and 90s, how can that be? More importantly, where is this proof of such wrongdoing? There is no doubt they want higher prices to maximize profits. And I don't doubt that they squeeze supply to the degree that they can. But they don't have as much control over oil prices as you and others want everyone to believe. If they did, oil prices would have never dropped to $10. Everytime prices go up, allegations are made. Prices go down, nobody says a word. I believe no one can keep a secret for this long and such wrongdoing would have been leaked to the media by now.
The reason prices were lower than they are now lends to several reasons, not the least of which is an increase in usage for gas and oil, mainly in china. Though you may have noticed I claimed a false manipulation of gas prices, not oil prices. Even so, they are closely tied. With the advent of the war, the oil companies have found yet another cause for inflated speculation to support their concerted effort to no longer increase production. The expense of increased production is not prohibitive, but profits would be nowhere near where they are today without this initial problem. Keeping production at a low mark, insures inflated prices if any world market changes take place, as we are experiencing today. Every single oil man will admit to this being the reason for high prices. They can do something and to alleviate the problem and still make unreal amounts of money, but they won't until they are forced. The current spike in gas prices have occurred without any rise in oil prices or increase domestically in usage. Point in fact, this time last year, oil was over $70/barrel as opposed to now. You can think there is not gross profiteering but that doesn't make it so. The oil companies depend upon the general public acting like sheep and just accepting whatever happens. You should watch the news more often, it's not a secret. If you are waiting on the good will of our legislators to investigate without prompting, perhaps you should look at the PAC $ that is spent in congress every year. This has gone on for so many years, it is a science. That might clarify things for you.
