Dr. Ben Carson for President

You're so funny Red. It has been shown that big Pharma, hospitals and insurance made deals to insure their business prospered. Obama and the Ds bribed them as well. All perfectly legal I'm sure but the same effect. They gave support for $$$$.

You ask who promised these things???? Really???? It was in the D campaigns for the bill and ever after. You're better than that Red. You've used those points as arguments for the ACA.

So you're very going to used a narrow definition in a political discussion? Please why don't you address the point that costs and insurance rates are rising at a rate significantly higher than predicted with no end in sight? In political terms it was a scam. The president and congressional Ds knew and were warned by Gruber and other this would happen. In fact calling it a scam is just about what Gruber did. Before you try to dicount or discredit herr Gruber recent document releases under the FOIA show he was a major player at the heart of the plann.

 

Like I said before, and as much as red wants to dispute it he simply cannot because it is absolute fact, this piece of shit passed without a single republican vote AND the last few votes that it needed to pass were bought and paid for with kick backs to members of their OWN party. If that doesn't tell you how awful of a bill this was then nothing ever will.

Garbage in - Garbage out.

 

Well before you write the obituary for the ACA let's look at this a little more scientifically and pragmatically, Winston. First, your suggestion that Red and I have blindly backed this law without expressing reservations that portions of it would have to revised are incorrect. I have said all along that any piece of legislation this large would have to be revised as we saw what the practical application of the law looked like. So before you pigeon hole me or Red, be sure you have your facts straight. I've been an ardent supporter of health care reform.....the ACA is a significant step in that direction but it is far from perfect and I've said so along. I've also argued with those of you want to repeal it without a plan to replace it. No one argued that premiums were rising at an unsustainable rate before the ACA was enacted, because everyone agreed they were.

Once again you've completely over spoken. The ACA is a piece of legislation that was passed into law by a duly elected congress, senate and signed by the President. There is nothing illegal about it and bribery is an unfit word to describe it.

These are the very people that the law was intended to protect. These are the very people who were being excluded by the insurance industry before the ACA because they were unhealthy or because they couldn't afford it. There is a hole in the system because people have been signing up and then dropping it after they are treated. This is an unintended consequence of the way the law was written and needs to be addressed. Someday maybe congress will start the work of fixing at least some of the more glaring problems.

You just cannot help it can you? You have to use extreme language. To say someone is "scamming" someone else insinuates that a crime was committed. Again, this law is completely legal.

Long story short here is that there is a problem with a piece of federal legislation that needs to be fixed. Not to score political points for one side or another, not to hand your opponent a political victory but because this actually affects peoples lives. This isn't time for a tit for tat. If Republicans have a better plan then let's see it. So far we've been promised a counter plan over and over and over until no one really listens anymore. Truth is, they don't have a different plan and they never have....never will, because the ACA is, in effect, the essence of what the Republicans were championing prior to 2008 until BHO embraced it as an alternative to Medicare for everyone and it became law.

I have received no notice of a premium increase in NC. That said, the increases were also "proposed" increases. Let's see how this plays out before you guys order the confetti.

 

So how many Republican votes did it get?

Just how did barry get those last few Dem senators to come on board?

Exactly what I thought. Crickets mofo

 

So where's the "better" plan, Shane? Let's forget politics here and talk facts: Nobody disagreed, prior to the ACA, that something had to be done to address the rising costs of health care rates. Obama stepped forward with a plan to address the problem. To date I have not seen one single Republican proposal. Not before the ACA and sure as hell not afterward.

This was not an awful bill. It was a good bill that actually intends to help everyday, ordinary people like me and you and the rest of us by addressing the deadbeats who never carry insurance but show up in the emergency room and stiff the hospital bill. Does it have issues that need to be addressed to make it better? Sure, but it's a long way from the days when the Insurance companies could act as their own death panel and decide when your benefits had run out, hence, your time. Health care isn't political. It's real.

 

If its not political then lets not make it political and please stop with the "this is /was a good bill" if it was so damned good then why wouldn't that snaggle tooth pelosi let anyone read it? Do we need to bring up "you need to pass it before you find out whats in it"? I mean come the Eff on. Don't piss down my back and tell me its raining bro.

I will give you that the system needed work but it didnt' need it to the tune that the dems were preaching and the numbers supported that, MOST of the "uninsured" that the dems were wanting to rope in were those that were/are young and didn't need it but they helped the numbers game and to sell it to an uneducated public. This thing is an economic albatross and you know it, the CBO knew it, pelosi knew it, Harry " I can't use my own exercise equipment without it kicking my own ass" Reid knew it but they shoved it down our throats in a back door cloak and dagger meeting anyway.

So yes, I will give you we needed a better plan, as long as you will give me we sure as fuck didn't get it with this POS.

 

NC now that the faults in the act that I and others predicted are showing up, you say lets get politics out of it. This was a political act intended IMO to win votes rather than solve a problem. There is no doubt there was and still is a problem with health care. It was over regulated, non competitive (actually anti competitive), rigid and controlled by big insurance , big Pharma, hospital corporations and the Feds especially Medi Care.
The ACA did nothing to address these problems and exacerbated them by the unrealistic promises made to include pre-existing conditions, lifetime coverage, etc. that added to the costs and the proposed answer of including previously uninsured youth or the medical device tax or the penalty on so called Cadillac plans was never going to pay the difference. This was known by those who wrote the act as the testimony of Gruber backed by emails and others shows. That is what defines a scam whether legal or not. They over promised and knew they couldn't meet their promises. There may have been some good intentions but they were overwhelmed by the prospect of gaining a permanent majority by enticing voters with the promises made.
Unfortunately no one including the Rs looked at alternatives seriously because it was a political fight NOT a policy discussion. The continuous R resolutions to repeal Obamacare are not answers but just playing to their audience and are no more helpful than the act itself.
I believe the whole health care system before and after the ACA has major problems. First the proposition that everyone deserves equal healthcare regardless of means is unrealistic. As a nation we expect to be able to make the poor choices (be obese, smoke, drink & do drugs to excess, not exercise etc) and be taken care of for little out of pocket when needed. Second there is too much central control and collusion by government and the large players in so called private sectors of healthcare. This brings to the fore the main issue that it is not only non competitive it is ANTI competitive.
There has been little in the way of serious R proposals. I think one reason is because there is no answer that will solve the issue because to say everyone doesn't deserve equal outcomes and access to health care regardless of means is a political loser. One or two have shown courage but on the whole they have been just as craven as the Ds and played to the house.
There is no easy path or one that will make everyone healthy. My first step would be to open up competition between hospitals, insurance and doctors by forcing them to advertise prices and services openly and to stop the price rigging that is prevelant. Open competition for insurance between state lines reduce the patent protections for drugs, allow standards and incentives to be set to for lifestyle choices so that rates reflect risk. The few instances where there is open competition such as LASIK and cosmetic surgery have shown that prices can be controlled for years. Don't take my comment too far. There is room for regulation and government. Unregulated capitalism is as bad as socialism. I just don't believe it's the responsibility of government to take care of everyone. As not everyone can afford a Cadillac or a mansion not everyone can afford the special treatment Steve Jobs got. There is nothing wrong with that IMO. There is a place to help those most in need. It existed before the ACA. People weren't turned away when they had emergencies and wouldn't be under a less regulated regime.
NC health care IS political both in the small sense and the large view. It is time for both sides to stop repeating the mantras and open a real discussion.