martin: Billions and billions? Really? I don't really care about the numbers game but over 50% of the world is part of the Abrahamic religous "tree". About 33% Christian and 20% Muslim. The next biggest group are the Hindus. I think they are around 13%. I don't know what the hell that matters though. Really, what difference does it make? The question is whether or not the Hindus are right. Do you really think mankind would be better under a Hindu belief system or a Islamic belief system or a Christian one? I'm putting my money on the Christian belief system. I think it is an indication of the value of Christianity that the culture that was most heavily influenced by it just happens to be the greatest, most powerful, affluent and free culture the world has ever seen. Is that a coincidence? Did the Moslems manage to do that? Or the Hindus? As far as I know the Hindus were still burning their widows a couple of decades ago. How come you never rag on them like you do the Christians for burning withes in the Middle Ages? Or the Muslims.....where is the great Muslim culture that is such a beacon of human freedom and prosperity? As far as I can tell they do a helluva job of convincing their people to go blow themselves up. On a free market place of ideas....I'm going to go out on a limb and call that one a loser. You're not being honest here. I was answering you question about the differences in opinion among Christians. It would have been more appropriate of you to write something like,"open letter to the filty Calvinists and Presbyterians.....the Catholics have it right."
it mattered when your claimed a court would rule in favor of witnesses. there are billions that could testify to the reality of islam. many of them educated and with firsthand testimony of knowledge of islamic god talking to them about islam. and if we were ****ing retards we could pretend an absurd hypothetical court judgment was relevant. least relevant question ever. we could all believe martin was god and it would make the world awesome. wouldnt make me god, would it, guy? suffering brings you closer to jesus, says prominent christians like mother teresa. surely a man like jesus who spent time with the poor and least powerful and affluent wouldnt agree with your point about the powerful and rich knowing what is best? they are both an embarrassment to humanity. i am proud to say i have nothing to do with either of those stupid superstitions. you however, have no shame, this is why you are a truther and a christian. how many christians would it take blowing up buildings to convince you that jesus wasnt the son of god? isnt the reality of the sacrifice of jesus a reality regardless of the mistakes made by humans on earth in the name of religion? the muslims and buddhists also care who has it right. i am done with you. i just genuinely dont like you.
Just because you say God doesn't exist in a very matter-of-fact manner doesn't mean it is true any more than me doing the opposite means He does exist. For every person that you point out as doing something terrible in the name of religion, there are plenty of people that also do a lot of good in the name of religion. Whether or not their motives are logical in your opinion is irrelevant.
martin: I can't tell if you are confusing things on purpose or do you genuinely not understand my posts. The courtroom scenario was only in regard to the psychiatrists and the possession case. My point was that eyewitness testimony is admissable evidence. I wasn't saying you could somehow prove which religion was correct. It was a basis for making a decision on whether or not the supernatural exists. Again, you miss the point. The point is if human beings function better under a certain philosophy than under another it would seem to me to validate the accuracy of that philosophy. Like a football coach whose team performs well, it must mean they are on the right track.
An Islamic persons claim of killing in the name of God, really is of no consequence what my opinion is. Unfortunately for the Islamic person, the laws of man would superceed any such claim. Laws, that were derived from the word of God, specifically, "thou shalt not kill". If man is wrong in our judgement in this regard, then God will, on the Islamic persons judgement day, forgive or rather acknowledge the Islamic persons deed in Gods name. Our life on this earth is but temporary, our life in death is what is important.
You do that in New York coffee shops. In the deep south, we have been taught to be polite. It's simple manners, you have them or you don't. Do you ridicule children for believing in the the easter bunny or Santa? It's surely nonsense, but there is no need to mock and jeer them because it has a valuable social purpose and would be impolite. And you make it difficult for yourself to convince anybody of your idea, because they see your invective as blind bias and then give your evidence little credence. Most of these guys are being very reasonable and you are lumping them all with the "Bible is the literal truth" fundamentalists. I think they are buying most of what I say and much of what you say, but they choose to have faith anyway. I can accept that. Can you not? I really don't think they are stupid, crazy, or misguided. They just participate in a social group that has dogma, righteous beliefs, and rituals. And that is a very natural thing. I belong to such a group. We meet on seven Saturdays a year spanning the autumn equinox. We wear holy colors, join in songs and other ritual chants, we invoke magical prognostications, and prepare burnt offerings. At night we join in a great circle, drink elixirs, and make a joyous noise as we witness a human sacrificial slaughter. And we believe.
Red: I was trying to point out to martin that, regarding his suggestions that the Christians get together and decide exactly what ideas belong to Christianity.....that, the "powers that be" have actually done that a few times. Some people have chosen to reject the official line for various reasons, yes. I guess you could say logic was one of them but I'm not really aware of much Catholic theology that is illogical. It might be hard to understand the trinity, sure but the rest of it seems pretty straightforward to me. But then again, I've been thinking this way for a while now so I'm sure you just get used to it after a while. martin: I don't think Catholicism has anything against affluence, necessarily. I think they just want you to go about getting it the right way. This is my own personal interpretation of things so I could be completely off the mark here but why is that the Western European culture have been so successful? I mean, France, England and Spain basically turned the rest of the world into their colonies. How come the Indians didn't colonize England, or the Chinese colonize Africa or the Japanese colonize America? I don't think they are any less intelligent naturally or anything, I just get the impression somehow from their culture their philosophy didn't help them progress as fast. I get the idea that the West was more "curious" about nature and the world than say the Hindus. That must have something to do with the European mindset compared to the Oriental mindset. And the modern european mindset has definitely been formed by Christianity. Economics, finance, law, science, military, politics, etc....it's all an outgrowth of European culture, not Asian, or African or American Indian culture. This is what I mean by successful. It is a more effective way to organize society and that must tell you something. We've got a better coach, so to speak.
Did you forget the Great Schism where the Orthodox Catholics left? Or the Protestant Reformation? :huh: They were major splits because of logical disagreements within the church. I don't want to get into specifics because it belongs in another thread, but there remains a lot of illogic in Roman Catholic theology. And future schisms are not unlikely. There is one brewing over celibacy already.
depends on how old the "child" is. this is free speech alley, the point is to challenge ideas. of course they are misguided. and the fact that are not stupid is what makes it so vexing.
