Do you treat atheist like second class citizens?

Uh-oh, now you've put on the red, white and blue glasses. Of course Americans feel good about themselves.

But plenty of non-Americans don't see it that way. Nor do the native Americans who quite properly saw white America raise a crusading army to exterminate their cultures and religions.

Clearly many muslims see our invasions and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan to be religious crusades against Islam. Many of them see our defense of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia to be the same thing . . . Christian and Jewish troops on the ground in their Holy Land.

Not a President yet. But hundreds of very religious American anti-abortion terrorists have threatened thousands of non-religious practitioners, assassinated doctors, and bombed clinics. They even bombed the Olympic games.

 

Well, Martin brought a political spin to the convo. I responded.

The 19th century westward expansion was a religious crusade? Wow, I should have paid more attention in 10th grade US history.

Yes, yes, yes, and I'm sure the Nazis thought the Allies were racist bastages for objecting to their near-extermination of the Jews. Every conflict has two sides, and everyone on both sides thinks their side is the right one, and the other guy is evil. I couldn't care less what our enemies think of us. If they object to us being in their Holy Land, they shouldn't have brought the fight to us on 9/11.

Bet no President ever supported or condoned the violence. No Pope either. Anti-abortion bombers are no better than Muslim suicide bombers. My original statement to Martin was that Christian terrorist in Ireland do not represent Christianity in general. I apply this stance to your examples as well. Christianity abhors abortion, but does not condone murder as a means to eliminate it. Do you disagree?

 

I was thinking more of the Spanish colonials that preceded the English ones in America. The Spanish built a mission every 50 miles in their territory and set about to convert the Indians. The French built a trading post every 100 miles and set about to trade with the indians. The British built a fort every 200 miles and set about to kill the Indians.

Uhhh, that was my point, I'm glad you agree.

Of course. Abortion is not murder by the the law of the United States.

 

That's not what you said. You said

What's that have to do with 21st century Christianity?

I know that. What I asked you is if you disagree with my contention that Christianity in general does not condone murder as a means to end abortion.

 

There are roughly 2 billion Christians in the world. Very few of them are "authorities" on Christianity. I know I'm not one, and I suspect Fred Phelps and abortion clinic bombers are not either, though Phelps might disagree if you ask him. You certainly aren't. If its an authoritative opinion you want on what Christianity means, I suggest you drop an email to Edward Cardinal Egan, Archbishop of New York.

As for those who tell you "faith is personal", I have no idea what they mean, but I can tell you what I think it means (and this is if you heard that phrase coming from me, which you haven't). It means I do my best to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. I don't always get it right, because I am a flawed human being and sometimes my emotions, desires, etc lead me astray. I recognize that science is your god, and as a human being of free will, I respect your right to believe what you believe and will not attempt to dissuade you, or insult your beliefs. I would thank you to accord me the same respect.