Biblical Flood: Actual Event or Myth

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by flabengal, Oct 28, 2014.

  1. flabengal

    flabengal Founding Member

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    Be patient, I have to review some material first.
     
  2. flabengal

    flabengal Founding Member

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    Ok, @Red & Bengal B, give me your opinions regarding this scenario:

    Dinosaur bones are found. Carbon 14 testing will not be done on dinosaur remains because carbon 14 is useless over 50,000 years old. Dinosaurs were extinct 60 millions of years ago. No testing probably takes place.
    If carbon 14 were found this would be interpreted by the scientist as evidence of contamination and the results dismissed.
    This is how the scientist involved can influence the results by operating of off assumptions. Those assumptions may or may not be true.

    Well, this scenario actually took place. Bits of coal in the rock where the fossils were found produced results via carbon 14 dating indicating ages from 23,000-37,000 years old.
    (Glen Rose, Tx)
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  3. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    I am not a scientist like @red55 but if you continue to disbelieve that the earth is older than 200,000 years old let me ask you, have you ever been to the Rocky Mountains and the Appalachian Mountains? Or to Grand Canyon? The Rockies are millions of years old yet they are considered to be "young mountains" when compared to the Appalachians. While the Rockies have a lot of peaks of from 12,000 feet to over 14,000 feet and have majestic sharply defined edges that have been formed by erosion over millions of years, the Appalachians are much older and have been worn down over even more millions of years to be not nearly as tall on the average and to have had their sharp, jagged features worn into more rounded and smoother peaks.

    How may years do you think it took for a river to carve solid rock down into something like the Grand Canyon? That didn't happen in a mere 200,000 years. And if you still persist in believing that the earth is way younger than it really is, just look at a map of the world. Notice how the South American land mass would neatly fit into the African continental land mass like a puzzle piece. The continents were once joined together and through hundreds of millions of years through "continental drift" the tectonic plates moved the landmasses apart millimeters per year.
     
  4. flabengal

    flabengal Founding Member

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    Regarding the mountains I can't comment on that....I have no idea how to interpret mountains ranges.

    About the Grand Canyon....I don't think it was carved out by a river. I think it was probably the result of a catastrophic Deluge.

    Your comment about the continents is a good point, I would be curious about alternative explanations.
     
  5. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    OK, so far. There can be no original carbon in a fossil. Fossils are not actually old bones, they are rocks. Minerals over time have replaced the carbonaceous material that was bone, but preserving the shape and texture of the now missing bones (or plant material) quite well. With a half-life of only 5730 years, carbon-14 dating has nothing to do with dating the geological ages! Radiometric dating of elements with much longer half-lives has produced a reliable geochronology.

    The only thing in the geologic record which has anything to do with calibrating carbon-14 dating is the coal from the Carboniferous Period. Being ancient, the C-14 content has long since decayed away and that makes it useful in "zeroing" laboratory instruments.

    Wait a minute, you just made a hypothetical scenario with a scientist quite properly rejecting a contaminated sample. This happens all the time. How has he operated off of an assumption? It is fairly easy to determine if a sample is contaminated or not.

    This is too easy. I presume you are talking about the Creation Evidence Museum in Glen Rose, Texas. The name itself should give you pause. Carl Baugh, the museum creator claims to have evidence of a young earth. Careful examination of the main artifacts they claim show a young earth reveal that they are deceptions, and in many cases, not even clever ones. It is important to note that Carl Baugh is not only at odds with scientists but with other creationists. LINK.

    In addition, Baugh and his friends, Don Patton and Clifford Burdick, all claim advanced scientific degrees. However, research has revealed these degrees are fake. It is astonishing how a Christian can fabricate such degrees with no basis in fact. In short, the Creation Evidence Museum and its main operators are built upon willful lies by supposed Christians. Baugh now lists a Doctorate of Theology granted from Louisiana Baptist University. This school is unaccredited, and fits the description of a diploma mill. Thus, more than two decades after claiming his first phony degree, he is still at it.

    Many scientists have systematically demolished his "evidence" over the last few decades. Which of Baugh's many claims would you like me to debunk?

    Or shall we move on . . .
     
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Does the presence of a river in it suggest nothing to you?

    Don't take my word for it. There are many websites describing how the canyon was created that you can visit.

    Alternatively, there are sites that describe the evidence left behind by huge floods, which are quite different.
     
  7. flabengal

    flabengal Founding Member

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    Well, this is interesting. I would think water flows there because it moves to the lowest point. Did the ocean form the "ocean basin" or is the water there because it's the lowest point?
     
  8. flabengal

    flabengal Founding Member

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    I am less interested in the scientist/con-man aspect and more in the thought process. I stumbled across some articles where dinosaur bones were carbon dated and gave a reading. Are you saying if I date (from the same find)

    Sample A)
    Tree/organic material

    Sample B)
    Dinosaur remains (I assume they do find bone fragments or do they never?)

    If they both return roughly the same dates, say 20,000-30,000 years old then you are saying the scientist would dismiss the results for the dinosaur and accept the results for the tree. Am I right?
     
  9. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    You didn't consider either site did you? You can't see anything with a blindfold on, Hondo.

    Your question makes no sense at all. Water flows downhill, all the way to the ocean. It wears down mountains and carries sediment to the sea where it forms more rock over time.
     
  10. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Why should I debate your issues when you simply ignore my responses? Who cited the Glen Rose "evidence"? YOU. I respond. You disregard the response. I find this discussion interesting, but please don't waste my time. Has a scintilla of skepticism entered your thoughts, yet? I am curious.

    You're making stuff up! This is an imaginary scenario with a false dichotomy. What article? Did you read where I said that it is impossible to date dinosaur fossils using C-14? Who claims to have done so?

    Cite something that has actually been proposed by somebody (preferably a scientist, not an exorcist) and I will consider his evidence.

    As to your scenario, is it not obvious that a 100-million year old dinosaur fossil could be found next to a living tree root?
     
    tirk likes this.

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