When did this become an "either/or" situation. I don't agree with "Obamacare", but my point lies in that most of those who disagree with Obama's plan don't know **** about it. It's a far cry from being run by the government which is why I waded into this muck to begin with. No, I haven't seen an interview with him. I don't watch much TV news, but I do read. A LOT. I haven't found much in the way of him calling the Massachusetts Healthcare Plan a disaster. Regardless, this is a plan that actually can work in a capitalist country. It already does in Switzerland and Germany, among others. No, it's not stupid to find out where the money is coming from. Every interest out there has their hands in both parties, but when one is significantly more than the other and that party has a history of kowtowing to that industry's interests then we have learned a little more about how the machine works and what to anticipate from it. You seem intelligent enough to understand this. Yes. Thank you for explaining it in detail, although it doesn't change what I said. The Democrats did not have easily pass it (like I said). They had to rely on a controversial method because they lost the numbers (like I said). So it had nothing at all to do with the Tea Partiers issuing strategy memos, showing up en masse, taking over the Town Hall and resorting to shouting over speakers to not allow a discussion to take place? Interesting that's the position you take... Memo Details Co-ordinated Anti-Reform Harrassment Strategy | TPM Document Collection | Origin: Right Principles *Unapologetically American* YouTube - TEABAGGERS ATTACK YouTube - Anti Healthcare Protest - Town Hall Health Care Reform Protesters - Tea Party Rally YouTube - Tucson Tea Party Town Hall Aug. 28 Protester There are dozens more on youtube. It's ****ing stupid that these people exist and that this worked, but even worse that these people who need a lesson in civility and maturity are called "patriots" and considered to be the way our country needs to go politically.
CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - Drug industry lobby threatens to pull health care bill support - Blogs from CNN.com The Obama administration and Democratic leaders struck a deal early on to get the powerful lobby on their side during this debate. PhRMA spent millions in advertising in support of Democrats efforts and agreed that drug companies would contribute $80 billion to help defray the cost to the government of reforming health care. Rep. Henry Waxman, D-California, released this statement to CNN: "The brand name drug companies are threatening to block health care reform for millions of Americans unless they receive virtually permanent immunity from generic competition. This is an outrageous demand. The goal of health care reform is to help struggling families not to enrich the drug companies." Just a quick search pulled this up and this is what I mean. Big companies will be in bed with whoever is in power because it suits them. They can afford the hit and it snuffs out any competition. Here is the real deal, for at least a quarter century or more corruption and bureaucracy have become out of control in our system. Both sides. It is past the point where any of it can be "reformed" it has to be replaced.
NOW I see your perspective. Yes, it is true that the bulk of the money goes to whomever is in power. That's an argument for gridlock if I ever saw one. Insurance companies did the same, investing millions to get this bill passed because they stand to gain a lot from it. Of course an argument could be made that everyone having insurance is not necessarily a bad thing.
As long as they buy it themselves. Dems have a way of twisitng the #'s to make it seem really horrible. When you weed out the people who are young, health and don't WANT to spend money on insurance, the illegals who are NOT entitled to insurance you are left with a number that is far easier to work with than the 30million that was thrown around. Taxing everyone for a socialist program that includes national funding for abortion, drug companies being able to tell you what drugs you can have based on a % that was produced during blind test, and not being able to see the doctor you want to see is not only unconstitutional it is just dumb.
Hillary Clinton: It's stupid that "these" people exist? Sorry that you have to live with these horrible people. A little judgemental of you, but expected of liberals. It's patriotic to debate/disagree/scream a Republican Admin I guess. But debate/disagree with Democrats, and you're immature and not civil. :huh: Yet, as you note, after town halls and polls against Obamacare, the Dems passed it anyway. You criticize because "we" misrepresent Obamacare, but nobody knew what was in it. Of course, as Pelosi said, we have to pass it to find out what's in it.
I don't think he was saying that, he was saying that the tea party folks at the town hall meetings weren't interested in debating, they were more interested in name calling, and their views, and their morals, and their way of life, is THE WAY OF LIFE. And if you don't agree with them, YOU ARE WRONG, even if you aren't. I keep hearing "the american people want this" and "the american people want that" well, there are people on both sides. It's presumptuous to say that this administration is just running out of control doing whatever they want regardless of what "the people" want, because there are a bunch of people in this country who agree with them. This wasn't a shot at you, just trying to bring a different perspective.
Then you should also point out that those that agree with it, know even less. And Reid made it clear over the weekend that the public option is his desire. Now that govt intrusion is law, dems are pushing for a public option. That is govt control. And the fact remains that the govt can fine me in the future if I don't buy health insurance. That is govt intrusion/control that did not exist before the bill. Since you read so much, you should start with what I write. Especially since you bothered to quote it. I did not say Romney called it a "disaster". I said it was a failure. And Romney has backed away from it because he cannot tout it as a success. That is what "backing away" means. Politicians do not refer to their failed policies, as disasters. Not when their fingerprints are on it. Perhaps you need an updated atlas. We are not Switzerland or Germany. But we are Massachusetts. And that is where it is failing. I didn't say that. Back to that whole reading comprehension thing. I said it is stupid to point out contributions to one party(on this issue) in order to make the other party look worse. They are both taking $. In huge amounts. Some more than others. Shall I list the #1 recipient from Fannie, Freddie, or any number of banks(take a guess), in order to make republicans look righteous? No, because that would be stupid. You can back away from this(Romney style) as if this was not your intent, but it's just bullsh!t. You used it to make the republicans look bad. The fact is both parties look bad, so your contention is stupid. No, what I said was true. You said: I have said this before and gotten no argument from any democratic or republican supporter. The republicans look like a monkey phucking a football. Obama didn't hit the wall because republicans cast doubt on this bill. The dems were not able to sell it. They couldn't even admit to what was in it, and none of them read it, so how could they? This is why they lost Mass when Kennedy died. Not the other way around. END OF STORY. No, it didn't. The average voter has never been to a town hall meeting, spoken to their representative, been to a Tea party Rally, or seen one of their "strategy memos". But the average voter was against this bill, and is against it now in greater numbers. They formed their opinions by reading news and watching the news for months. Listening and watching. That's all they did. The dems were every bit as derisive to the Tea party as the Tea party was to them. Zero sum game. Dems and Tea Party members are a minority, but the idea behind the Tea party is not. The average citizen does not want what they are getting. That is on the dems. Political activists? Maybe Europe is more your thing after all. Since you read so much, you should take a shot at history. Politics is not civil, but certainly better than the days when we shot people because they taxed out breakfast beverage. I wonder what those "uncivil" founding fathers would do today? You have a truly warped sense of what being an American is all about.
Uh huh. 65% Now Hold Populist, or Mainstream, Views - Rasmussen Reports http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law That would be called the minority. So when people say things like "Americans don't want this", they mean the majority.
so polls are your rebuttal huh. you know you can find polls that contradict your polls right? So according to this, you would be the minority. Polls don't mean ****. By Slim Margin, Americans Support Healthcare Bill's Passage
Yes, that's my rebuttal. Polls are a reflection of where the American voter is today. If you recall, once upon a time the polls said that Obama was doing a good job. They don't exist anymore. Although I am sure weed slows time down for you quite a bit, a poll from March 23, 2010 does not refute a poll from July. Welcome to reality.
