:huh: GOP's Idea? I think not, this is all big liberal land gobbley gook. It was so hard to pass because there were dems that would not vote for it. If it were to be just a party line thing the dems had the votes to do it without the rep even being there. It had to be sold and a few democrats had to be hornswaggled into voting for the piece of trash. Big health insurance and big drug companies are in bed with the democrats. It is why they helped write the darn thing. Cut everyone else out of the loop and they make all the cash. The constituency is not stupid bro, they just want to think we are.
This bill is almost an exact mirror of the legislation that Mitt Romney's people pushed through in Massachusetts and the Republicans in 1992 offered almost and exact mirror in opposition to Hillary Clinton's healthcare plane which offered the public option. IIRC, it originated with the Heritage Foundation which is a Republican Think Tank. It's hardly a secret, but it's difficult to throw around the "socialist" buzzword for a Republican healthcare plan. Are you kidding me? I mean these two industries throw money at both sides of the aisle, but historically they have always been stronger in the GOP corner. Did you forget the Bush Prescription Drug Plan that was practically written by Big Pharma? Your memory is almost as bad as your sources... The biggest hold up if you recall was the discussion surrounding the public option. The GOP did a phenomenal job of dis-informing the public and the Tea Party folks traveled around and behaved like Sabanfan (loud, stubborn and ignorant of the issues). It resulted in a lot of bad publicity and stymied any real debate about the issue. As for the pork, really? Is there any legislation that doesn't require a certain amount of horse-trading? I challenge you to find any meaningful legislation that was passed without pork.
You are dead wrong. Most Republicans are very critical of Romney's plan and could be a problem for him getting the presidential nomination in a couple of years. And the Republican plan was a market-driven plan rather than the government-driven plan that we have now.
So many things wrong here but I'll pick the highlights. What is it about math that you don't understand? I'm terrible with numbers but even I understand that they democrats had the numbers to push it through without a single republican vote, not one. Yet they still had a daisy of a time getting it passed and had to use every low down trick to do it. Why would that be? Hmm lets see, if they don't need any republican votes, and they didn't get any republican to vote for it, then it must have been ..... Thats right sparky, more than a few DEMOCRATS that didn't want to vote for it. Good grief what do you have up there between your ears Grits? As for big drug companies, you take a look at where the money goes and you will find a HUGE difference in what they donate to the DNC than for the RNC. Mit Romney is hardly what I would call a model GOP'er. His plan in mass if falling flat on its ass just like in the UK, and just like what will happen here. This, but he won't get it. Dude has the cool aid all over him.
And it is an colossal failure. There is no data that supports expanding this on a national level. None. Produce it. You can't. Romney himself has backed away from his mistake as if it is a corpse. And it is. Moronic ideas are not the exclusive province of democrats. And yes, entitlements are socialist ideas. Just like Social Security, Medicare, Medicare, and Bush's drug plan. Both sides take plenty of money. Trying to make one look better than the other in this practice is not bright. That is unmitigated bullsh!t. The republicans are more disorganized than they have ever been in my lifetime, with poor national leadership and a total lack of focus. That is acknowledged by people on both sides of the aisle. And there was no need for debate anyway. The dems had a supermajority in both houses. They could have passed it at will. But for some reason they could not. They couldn't because enough people paid attention and objected. The fight against this bill came from voters - republicans, democrats, and independents. When Obama finally bribed enough dems, they passed it in opposition of everyday voters, not republicans. The Tea Party is interested in reigning in the further expansion of the govt. and holding their elected reps responsible for their votes. If you don't agree with them, you should start your own party. Political activism on a grass roots level, not directed by either of the two parties is exactly what this country needs. But of course the party in power does not want that. So let's call them ignorant. Even Pelosi has enough sense to not continue this tactic.
Ummm... Yeah. I answered that. In fact, you even quoted it. Not hard to see why when the Democrats had two bills, and different options of each bill. Healthcare is such a divisive subject, that not everyone in a party agrees which reform is the right reform. There are dozens of different directions it could have gone and it turns out that it sent the most conservative. From OpenSecrets.org There is a flash graphic titled "Party Split, 1990-2010" that shows the distribution of money from Drug Companies between the two parties. Right below is a graphic of the average contribution amounts between the two parties. The GOP has traditionally taken much more.
I never stated that there was data that supported it on a national level. I hbaven't seen Romney back away from his plan either. He's been spending all of his time trying to explain why his plan is different with his biggest talking point being "well, we feel the states should choose not the feds" which is nothing more than avoiding it. Whoever is writing his stuff should be fired because at the very least he should be explaining why it's a better idea to apply healthcare reform locally per state than nationally. He could make a very good case because it's true. Neither is not reading what I typed and trying to make me look foolish. Traditionally the GOP has been the largest recipient of money from Insurance and Big Pharma. Not only do the numbers support this, but it common knowledge like water being wet. The Democrats lost a seat when Ted Kennedy died, dropping their total down to 59. They certainly could have passed it at will before then, assuming that you could get them all together to choose a direction to go with healthcare. As I stated above, there are dozens of different directions that could have been chosen. It's pretty unreasonable that just because these people have a "-D" or "-R" next to their names on TV that they all agree on one single solution to the problem. If by Speaking of "unmitigated bullsh!t"... If by "paid attention and objected" you mean "shoved head in sand and let the loudest voices guide their opinion instead of reading a ****ing book" then yes, I agree. In classic legislative horsetrading, congressmen and senators hold their votes hostage when a piece of legislation is considered "legacy-making" because the person offering it MUST see it passed. We saw the same when Bush pushed the Pharma Bill through, we saw the same when Clinton pushed the Personal Leave Bill though, etc. This practices is decades, almost centuries old. The Tea Party is a joke. Republicans trying to be Libertarians are still Republicans. They tried a similar song and dance with the "Contract for America" and now they want to re-live the "magic". I really hope they succeed because no party needs to be in control of the Executive and Legislative branches at the same time. The past 12 years have been terrible for this reason alone and I long for the days of sweet, sweet gridlock as during the Clinton Administration. The ideals are great, but without someone to carry them out it's a failed experiment. Soon they'll be thrown to the side like the Green Party and the Democrats drag us down further.
Glad you brought that up. Everyone likes to tout the Clinton years and there was a lot of good stuff that happened back then, they just never give the credit where it was due and that was to Gingrich and the congress that he led.
I guess I'm soon to be a gone pecan sports fans but I will insult MLU as long as he continues to show his ass on a regular basis.
No, you have instead spent your time touting stupid republicans shoving the same idea. And calling the Tea Party ignorant. The clear implication being that they are wrong. Therefore you must agree with the ideals behind Obamacare. If you don't, then you are making no point at all. If you do, then you are making a point that is showing failure in Mass. Pick one. Then you have not seen an interview with him. The plan is a failure. Romney trying to explain it away as a success is just as stupid as Obama doing it. Romney won't tout it in the coming election either. He can't hold it up as a success. In politics we call this "backing away". I don't have to try scooter, you are doing just fine. Yes your intent is to make republicans look worse by extolling the contributions they have accepted in comparison to the democrats. And to use your analogy, it is like stating that republicans have been in the rainstorm for an hour longer than democrats, so they are "wetter". Yeah, it's stupid but keep on with it. You really should have just stopped there. They could have. They didn't. They had to resort to parliamentary maneuvers to make it happen. And the simple reason is because the majority of Americans opposed it. Then and now. Republicans did not hold this up. Voters did. You have said little else. No, I mean they read whatever "proposed legislation" was leaked to the public in advance, confronted their legislators about it, and received no viable answers. It's why so many dems canceled or tried to stage their town hall meetings last year. They had no answers, and they didn't want to face the voters. Instead they attacked the dissenters first as republican shills(fail), and then as the racist tea party(double fail). Bet you won't be hearing democrats denigrate the Tea Party as racist over the next few months. You know, that whole pesky election thing. You make zero point here. The voters spoke up and said no to the legislation, and no to the process. Dems ignored them and did it anyway. They will pay for it in November. The Tea Party is a great deal more than repubicans. Neither democrats nor republicans can swing a national election. The independents have to do this, and they are far more in line with the Tea Party than they are with the dems in power. They are an active reflection of the majority of voters in America. And that is how elections are won. Yeah I can see why you would say they are a joke. :insane:
