No debating that LSU's record sucks these last couple of years. But, calling Trent the worst recruiter in the SEC is just plain wrong. Sure, folks can debate what is "good" based upon what they "see" on the court, but when objectively basketball rags (ranking LSU's 2010 class as one of 4 best in SEC), State POYs (Derenbecker, Stringer) and McDAA games (one of only 4 SEC teams to land one this year) rank LSU in the middle of the pack to good in the SEC, you're just wrong. What folks are trying to do is judge a class by the results next year, which is short sighted. Yeah, clearly your opinion is that Derenbecker, Turner, Stringer, Courtney is worse that Voogd, Farrer, etc.? I guess I can just simply say you don't know your hoops. In any case, judge Trent's recruiting when his primary recruits are juniors and seniors. If his records are the same, I'll agree with you.
Oh Lord, you had to bring up Ben Voogd. I use to cringe every time he had the ball, he was good for a turnover at least half the time.
HornLand, do you know any details of how APR works for basketball? I'm trying to figure out how LSU is still climbing out of a hole here, while Kentucky with their revolving door of one-and-done's apparently doesn't have to worry about it.
A couple of factors are taken into effect. Not graduating is part of it, but not finishing classes is the bigger deal. If a player declares in April and flunks out of all of their classes because they don't care, it will negatively impact the APR. IIRC team GPA is also a factor, thus five F's will be bad for the team average. You just gotta hope that they finish out the semester even if they are drafted. Sometimes NBA teams will allow them to do so without penalty. Other players will completely forget about their classes and concentrate fully on working out and practicing.
I don't pretend to know all of the ins and outs, b/c I had the same kind of reaction, but basically it's as SyrTiger says. A team that has a kid leave "early" to go on to the NBA, but passes his classes while he's at school, doesn't necessarily hurt as much as a kid that stays in school for a few years but quits, or fails, before graduating. It's on a cumulative "point" system so some one who stays only one year, but passes all of his classes is not great, but not horrible. But, someone like Bo Spencer who doesn't graduate and doesn't pass classes is worse. Rivals back in 09 did a little piece that explains it... The NCAA's Academic Progress Report is flawed and misguided - The Dagger - NCAABÂ Blog - Yahoo! Sports Interestingly, though, as you point out, Kentucky seemingly continually "turns players over", but what they're doing with the fab freshman is making them go to class and at least passing them for a year, while they balance that of course with 4 year seniors that would love nothing better than to be a practice player at Kentucky but on the team to help the team academically. i presume that Kentucky doesn't have major problems here, but are skating by. In contrast however, you have Brady who was notorious for recruiting players that perhaps weren't going to stay at LSU, AND perhaps were not doing great in school, AND weren't going to the NBA. Take for example kids like Tack Minor, Bo Spencer, Magnum Rolle, Regis Koundjia, and others. Lots of kids that didn't graduate from LSU b/c they transferred, or they dropped out b/c of academic reasons. I think to some degree, that's why Trent feels the need to graduate his guys, and to bring in kids like Bass, Ludwig, Dotson, Derenbecker. These are good kids that take school more seriously and even if they're not going to be All-SEC, they are going to graduate. Every team has 'em, even Kentucky.
Thanks, guys. That helps me understand it a bit better. The system just seems like a big joke for basketball, where programs expose themselves to a higher APR risk for retaining 3-4 year players, while schools who rely on one-and-done's get by scot free as long as someone makes them go to class for that one year. I don't blame Trent for wanting to graduate his guys. Bob Knight, for all his faults, made education a big priority for his kids, too. But when Trent has to follow someone like Brady who handicaps him with APR problems right out the gate, you already start out playing with one arm tied behind your back.
Somewhat unrelated, but I couldn't resist.... This is some Kentucky News that I'm sure the NCAA is watching closely . NBA investigating New Jersey Nets part-owner Jay-Z for visiting Kentucky Wildcats' locker room after Elite Eight win - ESPN New York Ever wonder how Cal gets these recruits.... ? :yelwink2: So, how many Final Fours have Coach Cal's schools been able to keep?
