AOL CEO: 'Obamacare Is an Additional $7.1 Million Expense For Us'

Quit picking on the dead. Have you no respect?

 

The part of our discussion about when to ‘judge’ (your word) the ACA started with my question (condensed here) "Is it smart policy to pass a law that reinvents a significant part of our economy considering it that takes 5 years to know if it works." And then you launched into your it's to soon to know defense. Yes its to soon to know, yes we won't know for years, and by then the changes made as a result of the law will be integrated into how we stay healthy; for better or worse. That's the point of my question.

Think of it this way. The Athletic director decides everyone should experience the joy of Tiger Stadium, its not fair that some are left out. So he announces that three years from now 20,000 more people will be admitted to Tiger Stadium. Six months before the opening game the ticket system is having issues distributing tickets. It's game day, the ticket system is still glitchy and we really don't know how the 20K extra people will impact parking, concessions and rest rooms. I'm standing back looking at it and ask 'Hey guys, was this the best way to do this? Maybe we should have started small and ramped up'. And your responding with "Stupid Fucking hatefull Republicans never want people to enjoy Tiger football because they listen to Finebaum".

I assume your ‘insurance company changed the policies’ interest is to 'prove' Obama didn't lie. And that it was all the insurance companies fault that Obama was 'misjudged' on this. If this was a court of law I think the Jury of public opinion would convict Obama; HOWEVER the appeals court would dismiss because technically you are correct. But it's also true that people in Obama's camp knew it was going to go down like it did and didn't share that knowledge. So I'll agree it’s not technically a lie; but it's not really total honestly either. When I’m ‘honest’ this way with my wife; I’m in deep shit.

The comments on ‘my credentials’ the last two days are interesting. However, the whole reply presentation to your point 4 was to demonstrate that your demand for a 'real list of problems' is disingenuous at best. I structured a response based on (a) knowledge of the topic, credentials, (b) a source of information that is unimpeachable for bias, and (c) reasoned analysis. Your response, credentials/knowledge doesn't matter; source of information doesn't matter; analysis doesn't matter. I could be an Accenture consultant SME (subject matter expert) on the topic under discussion and you say it’s meaningless – that is your words. Robert Gibbs as former White House Press Secretary is arguably one of the top ten experts in the world on choosing the right words to say on camera. But you dismiss it as a misstatement. But of course you totally agree with everything he says after he was Booker’d (as in Cory Booker). And even though my written analysis was mildly stated (a) there are problems, (b) they will be fixed, (c) it will take time and money, and (d) there could be more problems in the future; you found it to be ‘bluster’. So I have to ask this question. If knowledge is meaningless, information source can always be dismissed, and your responses are more emotional than rational, how am I supposed to have a conversation with you? Or should I even try?

And you need to update your ‘lets give it two years’ timeline. The President has delayed parts of the mandate for 2 years. So now when you say we have to wait 2 years after the rollout to find out, well we are now two years from the full rollout, and then we wait 2 years – that will be 7 years after the law is passed before you say its ok to ‘Judge’ the law. Shit, that makes sense.

So a trainwreck rollout, full implementation now delayed for two years; and a significant portion of American with justifiable elevated anxiety over their healthcare. But its all gong to be just fine. I tell you without reservation - There are no American Tanks in Bagdad.

 

Well, I think we might be getting somewhere. But attending football games and gaining health care are not good comparisons. I see where you are going with it so I won't bust your balls. The problem with the analysis is the parts that you missed. A better comparison would have been to add these details: 1)Tiger stadium has plenty of seating to accomodate those other 20,000 tickets, in fact about half that many have been sneaking into games without paying the price of admission, leaving the costs to the other ticket holders whose costs keep going up every season because the records show that the games are not selling out in spite of record attendance. 2)Those opposing the AD cry nonsense because they say that the stadium is filled every Saturday night and we can't possibly add more. 3)Ticket distribution is a problem 6 months prior to the first game, but not because people are not willing to buy the tickets but because half the parishes in Louisiana refuse to set up ticket exchanges or ticket offices. 4)This forces the AD to hastily set up ticket exchanges for those parishes who refused to do so that turn out to be flawed because they have been tasked with such a monumental task with such short notice. 5)Guys like me aren't saying anything of the sort, we are asking guys like you to chill out for a minute because we are convinced that the AD's plan is fundamentally sound if given the opportunity to work.

The comments regarding your credentials are not complicated: On a faceless and nameless internet chat forum any one can say they are anything they want. That is no slight to your character, more like a general rule of mine. I own several mattress stores and have just opened my first furniture store. If you knew me and we had some history that would likely mean that you would consider me, to some degree or another, an expert in matters concerning the business world. But on this forum it means nothing at all; my opinion is judged not by who I say I am but by my ability to debate the issues. I can tell you are an intelligent person so I am sure you understand this. My disregard for your credentials is based on this and nothing else.

If you are a reasonable person and I am a reasonable person then we should be able to reach some consensus on what changes are necessary without pre-establishing hard time lines. If, two years from now, we see that modifications need to be made and there is some unanimity of belief then by all means let's change it....I'm not impractical.

Your argument against the mandate delays for small businesses are hard to take serious when you were just criticizing the mandate on small businesses just a few weeks ago. I do not mean you in particular but the right in general. I call the delays good common sense governing, allowing small businesses some extra time to adjust accordingly. What is wrong with that? How is that indicative of larger structural problems with the law? It's not.

 

That is a great analysis. One that any person of sound reasoning should understand.

I rest my case.

 

The idea is not to compare football to healthcare; it’s to provide an alternate way of looking at the issues which sometimes helps to separate the issue from accumulated baggage.

Left out details - I’ll continue and fill in details you inadvertently missed. I kept the same numbering system as you to show the relationships.

(1) The Athletic Department will pay all or part of the ticket price for most of the new 20K fans and spread the cost over the current fan base. The same process will be used for the new fan’s parking and concession costs. Many doubt the accuracy of the AD’s cost projections. This concern is heightened by the fact that the AD appears generally unconcerned about spending overruns. (2) All LSU fans want everyone to enjoy Tiger Stadium and know the grand building can make that true; however many of them question the AD’s plan to make that true. Prior to being hired, the AD promised to create this plan openly on WWL so that all fans could watch the discussions. It turned out to be the first example of a communication style of continuously repeating untrue or barely true statements to gain fan approval for the plan. It's curious that his partners in the plan and the businesses he used to berate for causing the problem (3) In spite of the difficulty getting his plan approved within his own supporters; AND in spite of the hard feelings caused in the rest of the fan base during the approval process; the AD inexplicably believed fan groups would do things voluntarily that the plan did not force them to do. It should be noted the plan did include several unpopular elements that were being forced on the fan base, but this was left off. Combining this with - (4) The AD did not develop a solid backup plan for this assumption and had an overall undisciplined plan implementation process. The result was a ticket system melt down for the first game. The AD’s supporters and core office team began a campaign of blaming anyone but the AD as is their habit in times of distress. (5) The fan base splintered. There is the inevitable but unproductive fan group who were against the plan that says ‘I told you this was never going to work’. There is the inevitable but also unproductive group of AD supporters who says ‘it’s not the AD’s fault’ group. And then there is the group that asks (as an aside – this next sentence should look really familiar by now) "Is it smart policy to pass a law that reinvents a significant part of our economy athletic budget considering it that takes 5 years to know if it works."

This last group is more interested in lessons learned from the failure so that they won’t be repeated in the future. However, some of the AD supporter group can’t distinguish the nuances of thought of fans that don’t demonstrate absolute allegiance to the AD. Instead, they lump all non AD/plan supporters together and attach the most extreme attributes of the most extreme segment to the entire group. The AD plan supports say things like “the non plan supporters don’t want the all the people to have health care (oops) to be in Tiger Stadium, they’d prefer them to be sick (oops again) to be spirit less. Which is a ludicrous thing to say about any large group, especially a fellow citizens (oops, last time) fans.

With respect to the ‘credentials’ conversation it was interesting but that’s all. If any of that hurts my feelings I need to stay out of Free Speech Ally. My perspective is that now I would use you as a source of information if I was buying a mattress, because you said that’s what you do. But I would weigh your opinion against all the other information I get. I think I covered why I added the credentials in post #162.

Hard Timelines – Go read #139. I’m not setting hard time lines; I’m not saying repeal; I’m asking for an acceptance of reality and asking is this the best way to do things. You keep saying wait 2 years. I’m saying it’s going to take longer than that because Obama is delaying part of the implementation. This next sentence should look really familiar by now - "Is it smart policy to pass a law that reinvents a significant part of our economy considering it that takes 5 years to know if it works. Only now it will be 7 years and counting before full implementation.

With respect to business mandates - What I said to Red in post 139 was Obama needs to either shit or get off the pot. I’m not a fan of mandates, but if that’s what we are going to do then fucking get on with it. Rip the bandage off and get it over with. Indecision in large government programs causes indecision in the businesses that are affected. Either path leads to winners and losers; but a business needs to know which one it is to plan for the future. Indecision in government leads to paralysis in business. We certainly don’t need that now. Indecision is not uncommon in this administration. (See Keystone Pipeline) I really really hope this isn’t about politics rather than what’s best for the country.

 

I wish I had more time to properly respond to your first paragraph because you bring up a few points I'd like more time to address. That said, if you ever have a mattress or furniture related question, feel free to pm me and, if nothing else, I'm happy to give my best advice......I mean, of course, the best advice I would give to a Republican....

On the time lines portion, it doesn't sound like you and I are too far off but you seem to feel that it will take longer to make an honest assessment because of the delays in portions of the law. I cannot argue that the delays might mean a longer evaluation period. The over all theme is that we are both willing to make adjustments where they are needed; I think that is important to note.

Regarding mandates, I see your point but I just happen to disagree. I think the difference in our opinions is that I sense you believe the administration has some kind of sinister reasoning behind the delays where as I believe that they are truly looking out for the best interest of these businesses and feel they need the extra time. Who is correct? Anybody's guess, and truth be told probably neither of us are totally correct.

 

Diplomatic with who? Cautious about what? It's a law passed 3 years ago. It's not like a surprise. We have to implement the bill; to know what's in the bill. And then we can start making fixing the stuff that will need fixing. It's time.

OBAMA found an alternate pipeline route? Well that's great. Because if Obama picked it, it's perfect and he should approved it without delay. Five years Red, 5 years. Three years since the alternate routes were proposed and accepted by Nebraska. Basically they've been cautiously diplomatic with this his whole presidency. It's the second term, he can start moving these things through the pipeline.

And sorting out a political solution sounds a lot like wait until after the mid terms.

 

Sounds like I'm going to be sleeping on rocks. But I would ask your opinion anyway.

As I just posted to Red. We have to implement the bill; to know what's in the bill. And I'm not making a play on Nancy's infamous comment, I'm sincere about that. This is a big change, and we have to see it in action to understand what it will mean. I didn't like the law; I didn't like the things they did to get it passed; and I don't think they gave a shit about much more than passing anything while they had the chance. None of that matters now. It is what it is. It's time to grow a pair and dive in. And then we'll know what we need to fix. Until then we are treading water.