ACTIVE SHOOTER: MARJORY STONEMAN DOUGLAS HIGH SCHOOL IN PARKLAND

I'm not sure where you are getting that conservatives don't want to discuss mental health as part of the problem. That is definitely a component that needs to be addressed and has been brought up many times but the gun control crowd drowns the message out. And they hyperbole of tanks and hand grenades isn't conducive to your argument. We are discussing firearms. I personally do NOT see a need for people to have AR-15 rifles but the constitution says we have the right to bear arms. I think reasonable restrictions could be in place such as age 21 before purchasing and definitely improve background checks to include mental health issues. The system failed this this time. THe signs were there but were ignored. That is the travesty in this case.

I will say this - they played a 911 call that the shooter made this morning. It broke my heart. He talked about losing his mom - apparently, no one tried to help him. He should have been in counseling after that and maybe this wouldn't have happened. But the family he stayed with just wants control of his money now. Its sad all around

 

There is some parsing of the truth in this statement. I challenge you to show me one instance where conservatives have done anything other than use mental health to counter the guns argument when we have a tragic shooting. Inaction is the answer to your question. And by the way democrats are complicit on this issue as well.

But a hand grenade would be the next level of fire power past an assault weapon so it's not hyperbole. 20 years ago people said the same thing about assault weapons and yet here we are. So at some point we do have to have a discussion about what level of fire power a private citizen is entitled to under the second amendment.

I am going to assume that you meant to say that you personally do NOT see a need for people to have an AR-15. Me either. I also do not believe that banning this one weapon is an infringement on my second amendment rights. It is designed and implemented as a weapon of war, as one that will allow as many kills as possible in the shortest amount of time. As a hunter I can think of no scenario where that capacity benefits me in the woods. One shot, one kill.

I would be in favor of starting there and seeing if it has the desired affects. I truly feel that mental health is the bigger issue right now but, like I said, we need to have a conversation about what level of fire power a private citizen needs and we don't need to have the conversation right after a shooting when emotions are rawest. Problem is, 3 weeks from now we'll be talking about something else and it won't come up again until someone else shoots up another school or restaurant or night club.

I heard the same and I share your sentiments here. Beyond the political vitriol it is extremely sad and the repercussions of it will go on for the rest of the lives of those most closely affected by it.

 

Oops! I corrected it.

 

You mischaracterize the issue @Tiger in NC I specifically and most articles I’ve read don’t attack the woman. I pointed out that THE MSM completely left out her previous experience. As @dachsie said that a former Fox News producer who did the same thing for a conservative position it would have been all over the news and used to defame her.
You know I’m sure there is room for a solution but the liberal media and the NRA drowning out any reasoned discussion. I’ve heard nothing but hand wringing from the left advocating that something must be done about gun laws with no acknowledgement that there were things in place to prevent this horror and NOTHING was done.

 

Yes it is. One is a firearm, the other is an explosive. That’s the worst comparison you could make.

 

Winston, I replied to a post made by VBall who was attacking the woman. I fully understand that you pointed out the true villain is the MSM but it still doesn't matter. Much ado is being made about something that, ultimately, will have little to no bearing on this argument. I also understand Dachsie's analogy but regardless of which side it happens on it is irrelevant to the issue at hand.

There is most definitely room for a solution but we will have to address the issue when cooler heads can discuss it and not right after a tragedy such as this when, as you pointed out, the talking heads scream past one another. I still believe there is a majority of Americans who can find consensus around some common sense legislation and enforcing the laws we have on the books. So many things failed to allow that young man to storm the school armed to the hilt and kill those kids. We have a lot of work to do.

 

Should a private citizen be allowed to own a hand grenade under the second amendment? I am a combat veteran. My primary weapon was a GAU-5. The next level of firepower that I personally had to employ was a hand grenade. In fairness to your point I will concede that allowing fully automatic weapons would be a step up in the civilian world from semi-automatic. But it is far from being the "worst" comparison one could make.

 

So what you’re saying is that the American people will fight with congress to get that law overturned?

 

It's not my place to call him a coward. However, I will say that "doing what he was trained" is bullshit. If the procedures suck or they don't apply, then why follow them when human lives are being taken.

I'll tell you this much, I sent my kid's high school lock down instructions to an expert in security. He thought some were okay, and some were flat out stupid. I have instructed my kids which things to ignore and which make sense. And I happen to agree with Trump's position on active-shooter drills. They are not a good thing. I'm glad our local high school doesn't participate in them.

And I agree with you. His conscience will likely never recover.

Which takes me to what I posted earlier. Why did Runcie claim that Peterson wasn't outside the building, but somewhere else on campus? If he didn't really know, then why say it? And why did the video info come out the day after the town hall? The discussion over armed security got roundly criticized, a student who wanted to suggest that much claims CNN didn't want him to talk about that, and then we get a video showing an armed deputy who didn't discharge his weapon....at all.

 

Of course they do. Otherwise someone will end up looking in their medicine cabinet.

Personally, I don't see a need for people to have cigarettes, alcohol, fast cars, or refined sugar. Any or all of those things kill far more Americans than all mass shootings combined and it ain't even close. Someone else's interpretation of "need" is not a good or reasonable argument to restrict individual rights. After all, the Dems don't think wealthy people "need" all their money which is why they keep putting their hands in other people's pockets.

Why or how is that reasonable? An 18-year old can vote, drive, and enlist. Not to mention, studies show that the part of the brain capable of accurately predicting consequences, the amygdala, isn't fully developed until the age of 25. But our government has no problem sending teenagers in to wartime situations completely armed or allowing pre-teen or early teens to be prescribed medications that have severe impact on behavior and brain function.

Those two statements are in conflict. The system didn't fail, the people responsible for the system failed. 39 visits from the police...any one of which could and should have resulted in arrest. Complaints to the FBI that the FBI chose to ignore. Social media posts that were visible by hundreds of people, if not thousands....some were reported (at least one 911 call in November) including by the adult with whom Cruz lived after his mother died (she's the one who wants the money), but most were seen and ignored. The police didn't do their job. The parents who fostered Cruz at the time of the shooting knew he was depressed, yet they allowed him to bring several guns in to their home where they had a minor child. The deputy who stood outside with his weapon and didn't engage the shooter. Those aren't system failures, those are people failures. I'm not willing to suspend other people's individual rights because other people failed to do the right thing.

As a mom, I understand where you are coming from and yet all that emotion is what the anti-gun people want you to focus on. Emotion doesn't save lives. Emotion doesn't create sound public policy. The facts are that Cruz DID have help. His adoptive mother coddled him. He was diagnosed as having ADHD and depression. He was put on meds. He stopped taking meds. The woman with whom he was left right after his mother died didn't allow him to have guns. She reported him for violent behavior including at least one 911 call made by her son. His foster mother, where he went after foster mom #1 wouldn't let him have guns, knew he was depressed about having lost his mother so she took him to her therapist. He didn't want to go because he didn't like taking meds. This country is playing with fire by medicating young developing brains with a multitude of heavy pharmaceuticals. There is no body of research that tells us what the long or even short term effects of this social experiment are.

Columbine- Eric Harris tested positive for Luvox, an anti-depressant medication commonly used to treat patients with obsessive-compulsive disorder. It is one of a class of drugs called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRI). Other SSRIs are Prozac, Paxil and Zoloft.

Sandy Hook-Adam Lanza didn't test positive at autopsy but he had been prescribed Fanapt. Fanapt had been rejected, approved, dropped, rejected, approved because it was one of many drugs the FDA pumped out with an ability to exact the opposite desired effect on people: inducing rather than inhibiting psychosis and aggressive behavior.

Aurora-James Holmes tested positive for clonazepam and the anti-depressant sertraline.

The list goes on and on. But what happens? The media focuses on guns and bullying. Every school in the country probably has an anti-bullying program at this point. My kids have spent hour after hour watching anti-bullying videos, attending anti-bullying assemblies, being lectured about bullying. They know all about the anti-gun rallies, about how to lock-down. What they don't get taught at school is about big pharma, effects of anti-depression meds, how to spot a depressed, medicated student in their classroom. So why aren't the media or all these teenagers who are walking out of class and marching around, talking about drugs?


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