2012-2013 LSU Men's Basketball General Discussion Thread

Definition of fair weather fans.

 

So was it xs and os or personnel that let some go off for 30+?

And I don't see how you can say the sec isn't really bad. It's normally middle of the pack but now uk, msst and vandy are way down. More likely to get 1 team than 5 in tourney.

This team will be top half of sec next year with job's improvement barring injury.

 

Without a long-standing culture of that sport centered around the university, most of the fans you initially attract in numbers large enough to fill an arena will be fair-weather fans. There's a reason Duke football doesn't have a season ticket waiting list stretching from here to Durham.

 

Obviously, it's probably a little bit of both. If you watched the game, CJJ employed every defensive strategy, short of a box and 1, on McCrae. Man on man, 2-3 zone, full court press and soft press. McCrae was matched up on Stringer, Morgan and Hammink throughout the game, and there were times where their screens (TN runs a lot of screens off wide bodies like Stokes) left McCrae "open"--other times he just flat elevated over shorter defenders like Stringer to hit elbow 17 footers with Stringer standing right in front of him. Sometimes, guys are just in a zone, and when a guy hits 6 for 6 threes, he's in the zone. So, I'm not sure it's Xs & Os, as much as McCrae and Golden just got into that rhythm. That said, I wonder what a very quick 6'5"-6'6" guy on McCrae would have done. Pretty sure that Garrett Temple would have stopped him from scoring 34.

You're right in that the SEC is down. Right now bracketology has 3 teams getting in, but I think it will be a travesty if 4 don't get in (deserving would be FL, Missouri, Ole Miss and either Bama or UK. I think that Bama has a crazy SEC record, but as always is the case with them, their SOS and who they play before SEC play hurts them. That said, I think they only have 2 losses in the SEC, and it's a sad case if the second team in the SEC doesn't get an at-large bid. I don't think the SEC is as bad as you say, but I'll agree they're not getting the respect they deserve like they often don't. It's annoying that the Big10 gets all of this love, and yet you look at the past 20 NCAA champions and the Big10 has one, the SEC has like 6. My only hope is that some of these "middle pack" teams start to look and play better as we roll into SEC tourney. A Tennessee could be that team. Hopefully LSU is there too. A NIT bid would certainly be a good thing for these Tigers.

And lastly, I think shooting for top half of SEC next year is too low (keep in mind, if they win some games here, they'll finish top half this year). They're a top 3rd team assuming JOB and Hickey come back. UK will be back with their class, UF should be good unless they have some attrition, Missouri I want to say loses some folks. The Ole Misses, 'Bamas, and Vandy contingent I'm not sure if they've recruited as well as the Tigers and UK. Arkansas may also slip in there. LSU should be challenging for top 4-5 out of the 14 teams.

 

Like the dust in the atmosphere attracting water vapor before a thunderstorm. I mean, yeah, but that's how it starts. We had great attendance in Dale Brown's heyday and as he crapped his pants that died down over time.

 

I guess I dont understand the defination of a fair weather fan. Here is the way I see it.. I go to basketball games because I love the game BUT - I dont enjoy it enough to go out & watch my school get their butt beat 70% of the time. Most of us have to stretch our dollars to go to games as it is & I would venture to say that if Kentucky had the same record LSU has had for the last 5-6 years they wouldnt be packing the stadium ether. I watched the old cow palace go from a empty place to standing room only when Pete played. Dale Brown recruited good players mostly & LSU won. winning will fill Petes Palace & next year you will all see that. LSU is no different than most places. bring in a winner & the people will come. JJ is doing great this year with a subpar team that plays hard & never gives up.. they aint the best team in the conference but the best teams sure dont want to come to Baton Rouge now & next year will be better. My feeling is that if the University puts the money & effort into having a winning program then the fans will be there. If the university dont then why should I go there & spend my hard earned money to support them.

 

My feeling is that if the University puts the money & effort into having a winning program then the fans will be there. If the university dont then why should I go there & spend my hard earned money to support them.[/quote]



Fair enough. So, you weren't an LSU football fan for most of the 80's and 90's?

 

You make it sound like LSU didn't just build a $15.5 million beautiful brand new basketball practice facility complete with a 900-pound bronze statue of LSU legend Shaquille O'Neal on the side of our basketball arena that was built for a cost of $67.1 million in 2012 dollars, doesn't pay our basketball coach $1.1 million a year, on top of all the other facility and personnel expenditures spent on making LSU basketball great. Christ.

 

First, off, let's just congratulate our Tigers on their thrilling 3OT win over 'Bama yesterday. Huge game, with HUGE ramifications for the SEC race and a post-season play. http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&ATCLID=206487814 It's a big blow to 'Bama who sits very much on the bubble despite a 10-4 SEC record (and a roughly 70-ish RPI).

With the win, LSU sits at 7-7 in the SEC, chasing the likes of Tenn and Ark at 8-6, with big games to play. Given the SEC's RPI woes, we still stand a very outside chance of making the NCAAs but you never know with a hot-streak and some big momentum going into the SEC Tourney.

That said, this whole fan issue is worth debating a little bit, just because I feel strongly about the fact that IF LSU had a strong fanbase for hoops, frankly, our program would recruit better and do better IMO. Routinely, you hear from recruits that it's LSU football that recruits bball players and not the basketball. Routinely you hear about how a recruit is down maybe to a school like 'Bama or say a mid-tier ACC (e.g., Clemson) or Big12 school (e.g. Baylor), and LSU, and come back on their visits from those schools talking about the tremendous hoops atmosphere. So, my interests are purely in the long-term interests of LSU basketball and the hoops program (especially having seen it in the 80s and 90s, when the PMAC (in a bigger configuration) were sold-out).

Now, I won't go anywhere near blaming fans for not wanting to spend their hard-earned money, etc. Many of the things you say are right--it's the fans' choice where to put their dollars, winning breeds interest, the momentum is there for next year--I agree with you there. BUT, where I disagree with you is in the statement that LSU is no different than most places. This is where I think that LSU fans and community really need to wake up and support the program, and realize what they've got there in Tigertown.

What do I mean? My argument is that LSU, for it's size and situation and history (winning and losing), has an under-supporting fanbase for basketball. The reasons I won't get into because yes, LSU is a football school and arguably a baseball school, and hoops gets sandwiched in between. Yes, LSU has a hugely volatile history, with coaching changes, with final fours in between mediocrity or worse. But, I'd contend, that's still somewhat an excuse for a basic underlying feeling that maybe the fans don't appreciate basketball as much as the other sports. If you just look at attendance, even among SEC schools, you take away some of the argument of "football schools" "basketball in the deep south" etc. I can assure you that the stadiums are certainly more full on average at Alabama, Arkansas, Tennessee, Vanderbilt (with similar sized arenas and larger) during comparable seasons where their teams were similarly bad. Just as an example, this season 13,511 paid to watch 'Bama beat LSU in the 15K+ seated Coleman Coliseum in Tuscaloosa, AL. How many paid to watch LSU exact revenge on SEC West RIVAL 'Bama, yesterday? 8,200 (out of a PMAC 13500 seat arena). That's barely different than the crowd that saw LSU pound MSU last weekend... so a team that's hunting for a higher seed (and a top half seed--not bottom 3rd, as you'd suggest) can't get more fans to show up for playing their hated rival? I can cite to a ton more data, at the Arkansas and Tennessee arenas who seat more than 20K. Certainly, you jest when you say that UK attendance would dwindle to post 2000 LSU numbers with a mid-SEC like record. That stadium is almost always a sell out regardless of the record, even in the depths of Pitino's early years, or even this season's "off year" for Cal--but I'll exclude them from the debate because it's UK a "basketball school". You look at even comparable schools in other conferences, and compare attendance, like at a mid-tier Big 12 school, like Kansas St or Iowa St, or mid-tier Big 10 school like Iowa or Minnesota. These are also programs that hope to make the Big dance, they are not the Kansas or Kentucky's of the world, they are not consistently great schools that simply deserve attendance. They actually just have fan bases that maybe care more, either about the school or basketball. So, no, LSU is different from other schools--particularly about basketball.

This isn't meant to be a bash the fans segment, but just trying to be objective about the problem that LSU coaches have had to deal with ever since Brown's decline. Brady saw a run to the final four, Trent and Brady saw SEC championships in their time. LSU hasn't been so bad to deserve this kind of fan support. Now, I can only say--thank goodness that CJJ is doing his job. He's got a team competing for the top half, maybe top 3rd of the SEC, and a team that's 16-9, 7-7 in SEC, when folks wrote LSU off for bottom 2 or 3 teams in the league--let me ask does that kind of record deserve 8K out of 13.5K fans to show up?

I obviously foresee that LSU season ticket sales for next year will go up, there will be more folks excited about 3 top 100 kids joining this squad (and LSU with the second highest ranked SEC recruiting class, behind of course, Kentucky) in addition to others. But, I still say the measure of fair weather fans is whether fans support the teams in times like this, when it's not "easy" or "expected" that fans show up. If 2K more fans showed up for upcoming critical games against Ole Miss and Arkansas the rest of the season, you don't think it would make a difference? --To the team playing hard for the school, or for recruits like Jarrell Martin who will probably be at the game? I certainly hope that the entire community will get the word out for these last few SEC games... it couldn't matter more IMO.

Congrats again to Coach Johnny Jones, his staff, and the LSU players. You guys are doing a tremendous job, let's keep it up and hope that the fans follow.

 

How many years since we've been a consistent winner? Not under Johnson, not under Brady, and for many years not under Daddy Dale. So far, not under Jones. Don't compare outside of the SEC as football is king in SEC moreso than any other conference. Don't compare to any school that has had a pretty good run in recent history. We are right around Georgia, S Carolina, Ole Miss, Auburn, etc. I truly believe if we win the fans will come. If we win consistently the fans will stay.

PS - Pretty pleased with the job Jones is doing this year. It is on him to rebuild the program and it seems like he's doing a solid job, with the team getting better as the season goes on.