Why I will never support a so-called "Palestinian" state

Have any of you ever seen the Spike Lee film "Four Little Girls." Now I don't care very much for Spike or most of his attitudes on race, but I must admit, the guy knows what he's doing on a film set, and this was probably his best work. In my opinion, the bombing incident at a black church in Birmingham that claimed the lives of four small girls in 1963 was a pivotal event in the civil rights movement that turned the tide against white supremacy and segregation in the South, probably more so than the bus boycott and the march from Selma. It did so because it won Southern blacks the sympathy of many whites across the nation, even in the South, and eroded support for segregation and white supremacism. The Ku Klux Klan and the Wallace Administration went from valiant defenders of the honor and rights of the white man, to vicious monsters who would stop at nothing, including the murder of children, to keep kicking black people down. It was all over after that.

Four little girls died in Israel this weekend. They and thier mother, eight months pregnant, were driving in a car on their way home. Two so-called "Palestinian" terrorist murderers slipped through Israeli border positions near the Green Line and sniped at the woman, hitting her and causing her to swerve off the road and crash. The terrorist animals then walked up to the car and riddled it with bullets, killing everyone inside. The youngest girl was only two years old.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=61711

These savage beasts live to do only one thing; to kill Jews, and Christians, and Americans, and eventually anything and everything that is not Muslim. For those of you who want to cut Israel off and just "stay out of it," you need to realize that their fight is our fight, their enemy is our enemy. And if the deaths of these four little girls don't convince you of how evil the enemy is and what the price of defeat in this war against radical fundamentalist Islam is for all of us, then I don't know if anything would.

Savage beasts roamed the planet and killed millions from 1939-1945. In response, two warrior nations, Germany and Japan, had to be pacified by force. They had to be taught a lesson.

Like German culture, like Japanese culture, Islamic culture must be pacified and purified. The war will never end until we do this.

Will this be a watershed moment, like in Birmingham over 40 years ago? Will civilized people again rally to defend civilization, and freedom, and all that is good, shamed and horrified by the blood of the innocent? Or will we again turn away, afraid to shoulder the burden of fighting evil? Afraid to do what we know must be done.

 

zoinism , or the idea that certain tribe or people is entitled to a homeland, is stupid and racist. when people are stupid enough to claim they own an ethnic homeland, i dont feel like it our responsibility to help them.

i understand that israel is not our enemy, and radical arabs are. so i say kill the arabs, but kill them because they are messing with us, not because they are fighting over land in israel. who are we to tell them who owns what land in israel?

if we are so obsessed with saving little girls, then how come we did nothing in rwanda, when people were being killed by the hundreds of thousands? i will tell you. because we are far too interested in defending jews and christians, while ignoring others. i dont care what tribe you identify yourself with. kill each other all you want, but die if you mess with us. i do not care about israel. they should defend themselves. if they want to slaughter every palestinian man woman and child, good for them, it is not my business.

the idea that we can bring peace to the area is crazy. this morons who care about holy lands will never stop fighting for it. thats what happens when you believe in magical holy lands.

why should my time, in the form of tax dollars for assistance to help israel, go to a conflict i consider stupid? couldn't both stupid sides just move away or quit caring what land is holy and just be capitalists?

any nation that is stupid enough to not institute a separation of church and state, i have no respect for.

 

Jetstorm, I think your analogy is pretty good, however the Palestine/Israel struggle is exponentially more difficult than the racial one.

The civil rights movement was/is an attempt to reverse about 400 years of racial prejudice (I believe Europeans started buying African slaves in the early-to-mid 1500's). The Muslim/Jew struggle has being going on for thousands of years now, not just 400.

Plus, overcoming racial prejudice involves defeating only simple hatred and ignorance. The Israel/Palestine struggle involves hatred, ignorance AND RELIGION, which is probably the most powerful force in the world.

You could argue that religion is one of the things that has helped break down racial barriers. I think it's a pretty safe argument.

On the other hand, religion is THE barrier dividing Israel and Palestine.

Is it horrible that those women and children were murdered? Yes, but human history is riddled with that kind of stuff.

I'd love to see those issues resolved. The world would be a better place, but I don't expect it to happen.

And I think we're very selective in what we care to defend in this country. Hell, the U.S. has destroyed a "Jerusalem" right here in our backyard just in the past few years. In the mid-nineties, they turned the birthplace of one of the main Native American religions into a reservoir in Pennsylvania. No one raised a stink over that, 'cause it's just "Indians."

 

Its simple for me, I won't ever support a Palestinian state because Palestine supports
terrorists like Hamas and they've sworn to the End of Isreal.

How could anyone think that a Palestinian state could ever work?
Look at the peace accord that was signed by Arafat and Isreal with help of
our president a few years back.

Who backed out?

 

Hey Martin, Zionism doesn’t refer to a tribe. It refers to a nationalist movement no different than any other nationalist movement around the world, but because it happens to be a Jewish movement, it has been demonized the world over, and it’s very obvious you have fallen victim to that nonsense and even bought into it.

Also, you seem to be under the very mistaken impression that Zionism is a religious movement and Israel is a religious state. Nothing could be further from the truth. Zionism is not even a religious movement. It’s secular! As a matter of fact, Theodor Herzl, the founder of the Zionist movement was an atheist.

Where a lot of people become confused is they believe that the word Jew refers to a person’s religion. It does, but it also refers to a nation of people. The Jewish people are a nation of people, just like the Arab people are a nation of people. A nation of people means they mostly speak the same language, share the same customs, eat the same food, and share many other commonalities.

Additionally, you say you have no respect for any state that doesn’t institute some form of separation of church and state. Well Israel is a completely secular democracy with separation of church and state and 100 percent freedom of religion. In fact, Israel as a state is much more secular than even the US. Indeed, Israel is the only secular democracy in that part of the world.

You also attacked Israel as being some sort of racist apartheid state. However, twenty percent of Israel’s citizenry is comprised of Israeli Arabs that have exactly the same rights and benefits as the Jewish citizens of the state. They can vote, run for elections, hold elective office, serve in the Knesset, and serve on the judiciary.

It is only the so-called Palestinians and the Arabs that demand that the disputed territories be completely, as the Nazis called it, Judenrein. Now, if Israeli Arabs are free to live in Israel and share all the same rights and benefits as the Jewish citizens of the state, why can’t Jews live in any Palestinian state that may be created and share all the same rights and benefits as the so-called Palestinians?

It’s unequivocally clear, if anyone is racist, it is the so-called Palestinians and the Arabs that are racist among other things. Indeed, Martin, how many Jews live in neighboring Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, etc.? Isn’t it an historical fact that 900,000 Jews were ethnically cleansed from the Arab world with nothing but the shirts on their backs and their property confiscated soon after the formation of the state of Israel? Why we never here about those refugees?

Moreover, you simply don’t know what you are talking about when you denigrate the fact that the US provides aid to Israel. For every dollar of foreign financial aid the US gives Israel, it gets 3 or more back in return.

For instance, Israel has the fourth most powerful military in the entire world and is more than capable of defending itself in the rough tough neighborhood of the Middle East. Because the Middle East is absolutely strategically vitally important to our national security, if the US didn’t have Israel as a close ally in the region, the US would be forced to maintain military bases throughout the Middle East at the cost of many more billions of dollars than we currently spend now providing aid to Israel or, for that matter, Egypt and Jordan too. As a matter of fact, all of them combined!

Not to also mention that most of the financial aid that is provided to Israel is spent right back here in the US for the procurement of weapons and other products. These sales are handled through a special department in the Pentagon at non-discounted prices. Remove that aid going to Israel and thousands of American workers currently employed here in the US would lose their jobs.

Furthermore, the US has benefited from our close relationship with Israel in a myriad of ways in such things as weapons testing and many various technological innovations that have saved the American taxpayers far more billions of dollars than we have spent providing aid to Israel over the years. Indeed, let it be clear, our close relationship with Israel has been a win/win relationship for both our respective countries.

Now, contrast our relationship with Israel with the foreign financial aid we provide to the Arab world. Take Egypt, for instance, what do we get back in return? Rabid anti-Americanism, terrorism, and hate propaganda vilifying both Israel and the US! Go figure.

Additionally, Martin, you seem to be buying into the propaganda or hype that points the finger at Israel and the Jews as the root cause of all the problems in the world. Reality is the Arabs and radical Muslims the world over have been killing themselves and "infidels" for centuries. Long before Israel was born.

If the West is foolish enough to make the mistake of throwing Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East, to the sharks and allow a second holocaust of Jews to happen, it will only embolden the Arab world and radical Muslims the world over to make even greater demands from us Western infidels and ultimately lead to much more violence.

 

From an Israeli standpoint, religion has nothing to do with anything; the conflict is about attaining permanent and defensible borders and long lasting peace.

From the Arab perspective, Israel happens to sit on what the Arab and Islamic worlds considers to be holy Islamic land, and Allah forbids the conceding of holy Islamic land to infidels. Hence, from their perspective, religion has everything to do with it.

Therefore, the conflict is not about creating a state for the Palestinians. The British tried to give them a state back in 1937 and they rejected it, the UN tried too in 1947, but it was rejected again, and the Israelis have repeatedly tried to give them a Palestinian state. Reality is the only state the so-called Palestinian and the Arab and Islamic worlds are interested in is one which is completely devoid of Jews and that comprises all of the current territory of Israel.

 

definition of word zionism:

"a policy for establishing and developing a national homeland for Jews in Palestine "

since judaism is a religion, and zionism is definied as the movement for a jewish homeland, i continue to define it as a religious movement. and of course i demonize it. what right do jews have to anything? what right do arabs have to anything? what right does any ethnicity or tribe or race or religion have to anything? you organize and take what you can, that is the way the world works. nobody owes anyone a "homeland" . i am not jewish. does that mean i am any less deserving of a special place in israel? of course not. whether i am jewish is totally irrelevant!

why does a secular state have a religious symbol as the dominant part of their national flag? israel is a jewish state.

why do i, as an american care who gets a state? they both practice ancient mysticism. why do i care who kills who, who gets what piece of "holy" land? i know i cannot answer why people are so stupid as to kill each other for religious and cultural differences, but you can count on jews and arabs to do it non-stop. if they were smart they would just live thir lives and quit caring who gets what land or who is member of what ethnic group or tribe and stop being stupid. but they dont. they kill each other. if iw as jewish or palestinian, i would cease to identify myself as either, and get the hell out of there. i have no ties to my ancient tribe.

good for them. let them do it and lets keep out of it then.

no doubt about, the arabs are terrible too. if it were up to me i would ignore both of them. but we dont, we get involved, and that is very bad.

no i am not, i know militant islam is the worst thing on earth right now. i dont buy any propaganda. i would be happy if everyone would throw their dumbass religions and tribes and ethnicities and BS out the window, and just be.

i was born into a christian family. do i give a damn if christians do well? nope. christianity is stupid. i am white too. do care if whites get anything? nope. i dont identify with a stupid group. i care about me, and america, because america shares my ideals of freedom and capitalism. i choose what i care about because of my rational mind, not by accident of birth. until people abandon the stone-age mentality of playing the "us vs them" game, they will continue to kill each other.

here is how american foreign policy should work. we should say to the world:

"we are america. we love freedom. we are not a state based on religions or race or ethnicity. we dont give a damn about that. we only care that we are free to live in peace and safety. you other morons around can kill each other if you want, but if you mess with us we will slaughter you and your society. if you want peace and freedom, you will model yourselves after us, and have a nation based primarily on freedom. if not, you may continue to be poor and wretched. we will not help you, we are concerned with ourselves, we do not work for you or help you. good luck."

 

Sorry Martin. I've got to come down on TurboTigerFan's side on this one. You attempted to counter his points but you failed. The fact that Israel is a democracy among the rat's nest of radical arabs is sufficient reason to support them. Since your narcissistic personality refuses to see that, you use the financial and (in your belief) nonsensical religious reasons to espouse putting a fence around America, thus magically (another of your favorite terms) making all of the world's problems go away. As Turbo stated, Israel's problems are our problems, and to ignore that would be a fatal mistake.
One more thing:

That act is getting very tired.

 

Actually, you are correct when you say Judaism is a religion. However, the term Jew has two meanings: 1) a person who practices the religion of Judaism. 2) a member of the Jewish nation. For instance, if a Jew at some point in time becomes agnostic or an atheist, he does not stop being a Jew, because once a Jew, always a Jew, since a Jew is also a member of the Jewish nation. It’s not my fault you can’t grasp that simple reality or overcome your inane prejudices, whatever the case may be. And never mind the fact that there are also many Christian Jews.

Further, where in the definition of Zionism does it state or imply that the movement has anything to do with religion? It doesn’t! Zionism is defined as the movement for a Jewish homeland, and in that respect it is no different from the other hundreds of national movements around the world.

What amazes me is how people like you can have such strong opinions on the subject of Israel and the Jews yet not know the first thing about what it is you are talking about.

How about it’s symbolic of their heritage, and what helped hold them together as a nation of people through the years. And right, Israel is a Jewish state, meaning a state comprised of a majority of Jews, not Arabs, just like America is an American state comprised of a majority of Americans, not French.

The Jews living in Israel practice ancient mysticism? Okay, I suppose you can provide a link to document what you idiotically asserted!

Israel is a democracy in a sea of Arab dictatorial autocratic states. If you believe in democracy, freedom, and the rule of law then you should care what happens to Israel.

Actually, from an Israeli perspective religion has nothing to do with anything, it’s more like trying to live in peace and trying not to be a victim of terrorism. However, from an Arab standpoint, it’s all about religion. Just like when they attacked the WTC on 9/11, that too was all about religion. Moreover, when we were attacked, we reacted just like the Israelis do. We exercised our legitimate right to self-defense.

It’s obvious you believe that there is somehow a moral equivalence between Islamic terrorism and suicide mass murder of innocent and unarmed Israeli Jews, including women, children, and babies in cold-blood and the Israeli Jew’s legitimate right to self-defense. You really ought to get your moral compass recalibrated.

I don’t know what conflict you are describing, but it’s certainly not the Palestinian-Israeli Conflict. Please, get a clue.

 

free speech is alley is designed for me to speak freely. unlike you calling me narcisstic, i dont make personal attacks, but rather i argue against ideas and belief systems.