Obama The Iran Deal We Should Have Done

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Bengal B, Jul 17, 2015.

Page 7 of 43
  1. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    47,986
    Likes Received:
    22,994
    That's because so far no nation led by radical Islamic madmen with a martyrdom complex has had nukes. Even North Korea probably won't use theirs. Kim un Dungheap doesn't care if millions of North Koreans are incinerated but he doesn't want to die himself. Iran is still very much a part of the Axis of Evil. Sure, they have a more educated and enlightened population than other Islamic states but those enlightened citizens will not be the one pushing the button.
     
    Bengal B, Jul 23, 2015
    #61
  2. Winston1

    Winston1 Founding Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    12,048
    Likes Received:
    7,423
    Red you're assuming a 2pole situation (Iran vs Israel) and in that context you have some ground to stand on. However with this treaty and the consequences from the other parts of the agreement there is great question as to what the Saudis will do. As has been noted the Shiia and Sunni hate each other almost as much as they hate Israel. In fact the Saudis and Israelis are working together as we speak to counter Shiia militias in Syria, Lebanon and other places as are the Egyptians and the Israelis are working together in Gaza. There are restive minorities of Shiia in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and other Gulf States. Saudis and Iranians are in a hot proxy war in Yemen that threatens to become a direct war between the two.
    It has been reported that the Saudis were going to begin a nuclear bomb program. Saudi Arabia is a brittle oppressive state whose rulers are ruthless and scared (a bad combination). They have much reduced faith in US backing if things get tough. If they decide to get a bomb you know they can. They can at least buy a few from Pakistan or our buddy in N Korea. Don't laugh that off my friend money makes things happen and the Saudis are rich enough and desperate enough while Kim the latest is needy enough and crazy enough to make it happen.
    A multipolar stand off between 3 nuclear powers is very unstable and dangerous. As I said previously the president has staked majorly on this deal. The risks and consequences of failure are very very high.
    If you note I haven't condemned the treaty but I am very skeptical that it will have the effect the president hopes for.
     
    Winston1, Jul 23, 2015
    #62
  3. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    47,986
    Likes Received:
    22,994
    Just a few years ago there was some fear that there could be a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan. I have no fear of Russia or China. They know that they would be destroyed as well as the USA in a nuclear war. But the more small countries led by unstable religious fanatics that get the bomb the greater the chances are that sooner or later somebody will dare to use theirs. No nuclear war no matter how small and remote the participants would have a devastating effect on the rest of the world, including us. You would think that Russia and China wouldn't want Iran to have the bomb as badly as anybody.
     
    Bengal B, Jul 23, 2015
    #63
  4. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    45,195
    Likes Received:
    8,736
    Ahem . . . Pakistan. Th home of Al Qaeda don the Taliban and a volatile series of dictators.

    Its all about status with Kim. Probably the same with Iran, they have to keep up with Pakistan and Israel and they really think they need a deterrent from Israel, also run by a radical madman at present.

    They don't threaten us. The terrorists they sponsor are going after Israel, not America. Their agenda is local politics, not international politics. The estrangement with America has cost them an awful lot. They are a major middle eastern country and they want to be seen and respected as one. They still have some growing up to do and some religious radicals to get rid of. They hate being a pariah while Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt and Israel are all rockin' the house.
     
    red55, Jul 23, 2015
    #64
  5. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    47,986
    Likes Received:
    22,994
    Yeah Pakistan but they are our sometimes fairweather allies when they're not hob nobbing with the Taliban so we didn't bomb their nuclear facilities when we should have. Now it's too late.

    I don't know if the Israeli PM is a radical madman but if he is at least he is not a suicidal radical madman willing to turn his country into a nuclear winterland in praise of Allah. Or Jehovah or whoever. Yahweh?
     
    Bengal B, Jul 23, 2015
    #65
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    45,195
    Likes Received:
    8,736
    Rag on rag, not our fight. It fine with Israel if two enemies fight. Normally we try to gain influence and control both sides. That's how we stopped Egypt and Israel from going after each other for the past 40 years and it didn't cost a single American life or a single airstrike to do. We had to force them to negotiate and it has held. Same with Jordan and Israel.

    They can't even manufacture a car in Saudi Arabia. it's big on the map, but they don't have a large population, using millions of indonesians and Pakistanis to do their work for them. That will bite them in the ass one day. Except for the elite, they are not well educated. They don't have the technological expertise, the manufacturing capacity, or any uranium deposits. The make noise for propaganda purpose to try to goad us into doing their work for them, just like Israel.

    Nobody ever sell or gives away a nuclear weapon. It has never happened. They are too expensive and too important for the owners. And nobody, I mean nobody, wants a third party to actually use a nuclear weapon against someone like the US that has their return address on it. Pakistan knows better plus they have a long-standing agreement with us to get the aid that they need that requires them to allow us to keep tabs on their weapons. North Korea is going to lose any war they start with anybody, nuclear or not. They won't do shit.

    I don't know, the cold war was a massive nuclear stand-off with Britain, France and China as third players and it produced no war and ended with a treaty. The prospect of nuclear exchange tends to make countries more cautious and pragmatic.

    Skepticism is healthy if based in reason. I think both sides are skeptical of each other very much, but so were we and the Soviets. And the alternative to a treaty with Iran is to do nothing and they end up with a weapon quickly and we start losing our allies in sanctions . . . or . . . war. And they got nuthin' we need to go to war over.
     
    red55, Jul 23, 2015
    #66
  7. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    45,195
    Likes Received:
    8,736
    Bombing or invading and occupying other countries is not the solution to every problem. Damn few in fact.

    I've said it before, the Persians are not Arabs and they are a different kind of muslim. They do no practice jihad or suicide bombing. They allow more freedom than most muslim countries.
     
    red55, Jul 23, 2015
    #67
  8. shane0911

    shane0911 Helping lost idiots find their village

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    37,753
    Likes Received:
    23,932
    Now I've heard it all. Are running around with one of those checker board dish towels wrapped around your dome.

    There are only 4 kinds Amigo

    Terrorist/soon to be terrorist

    Dead/ one we haven't killed yet
     
    shane0911, Jul 23, 2015
    #68
  9. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    47,986
    Likes Received:
    22,994
    When they stormed our embassy and held hostages for a year or so it was just a big misunderstanding
     
    Bengal B, Jul 23, 2015
    #69
  10. shane0911

    shane0911 Helping lost idiots find their village

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    37,753
    Likes Received:
    23,932
    Had to be, cause they aren't that type of muslim
     
    shane0911, Jul 23, 2015
    #70
Page 7 of 43

Share This Page