The Founding Fathers (warning: quotes are not taken out of context)

I saw your list on the other thread. I can answer only some of these contradictitions, but I will answer the ones I know.

If you beleive in the literal meaning of the Bible this is a contradiction. If you understand the context you know that each time means David took a whole bunch of horses.

This one is taken completely out of context. Sam 31.4 is what actually happened. Sam 1.10 is the Amalekite telling David what happened. He lied and said he killed Saul. 2 Sam 21:12 is a problem with translation. It really means that Saul was defeated. This does not tell of his death

There are two possible soloutions to this one.
In the old testament Moses and Amos, and whoever else saw God saw God the Son. Remember He tells Moses to tell the people that his name I Am. Jesus later refers to himself as I Am. John is writing about God the Father. Who nonone has ever seen.

The other soloution is that John was writing a letter not a novel. He wasn't speaking literally, but more figuratively. He didn't need to write none hath seen God except for Moses, and Amos, and Elisha, and everyone who saw Jesus, and all the people who saw the Holy spirit on Pentacost.

What does dead mean here? The first two are talking about those who have been damned. They will never rise again. The second is talking about the dead who are waiting for judgement.

 

the founding fathers ( sssss ) is plural indicating a group of people, Hitler is one individual. The founding father's did not get together as a group decide to be Christians, it was just a matter of coincidence that they all were. Again, doctrine VARYS greatly from one Christian to another.

It is common knowledge that they EACH proffesed a faith based on Christanity. Individually. So you cannot equate Hitler's proffesion to be the same as the group of founding father's it's ridiculous.

Some Muslims practice the religion of ISLAM in a manner that is questionable to say the least, yet they CLAIM to be true. Same as Hitler.

You're argument would be like me saying all people who CLAIM to be wealthy are rich. Or all people who CLAIM to be poor are...... it's ludicrous.

 

Your argument is based on the fact that I compared a group to an individual? Laughable...

Let's compare an individual to an individual then if you lack the ability to understand a some-what complex comparison.

Thomas Jefferson (singular) professed to be a Christian in public. His private correspondence indicates otherwise. I will not debate this fact here. There's a-whole-nother thread on the matter if you'd like to disagree. Hitler (singular) professed to be a Christian in public. In other instances, he indicated that he was not. See the similarities? It's not so difficult. Now, other founding fathers were similar to Jefferson & in the same situation. Thus, I can compare a group to an individual.

Actually, my argument is the exact opposite. Salty's argument was that the Founding Fathers were Christian because they claimed to be Christian. My argument is that just because you claim to be a Christian does not make it so (& I used Hitler as an example of that). In fact, I had a sentence where I said this almost exactly. I'm sure it's been a while since you've been in school, but reading comprehension is still a basic life skill you should practice.

 

Why does religion need to be engrained in the government... there must be a means to an end. lt serves no purpose other then to cloud judgement. Our system was based on christianity b/c guess what... most of the men and women who founded this country were foreigners who didn't have a choice. They wanted the American people to have this choice, and have their beliefs or non-beliefs not held against them. Don't play the moral degradation card with me either, the reason their is such degradation is not for a lack of god, but because we all worship a new god...

 

when I went to school has nothing to do with it.
How the founding father's conducted themselves as Christians and IF it met your criteria is strictly opinion. I am sure there are those that would say Hitler was a fine Christian.

I am doubting you have the yardstick that measure's a Christian. very doubtful.

The point I was trying to make with you is that the founding father's as a group would not neccesarily be of the SAME Christian belief or doctrine, therefore I don't think it's a good comparison. They could have very diverse views on the subject. Therefore when comparing them to Hitler, your argument would be more plausible, in my opinion, if you had a apples to apples comparison. A Colt .45 shots ACP .45 ammo as does a Thompson 1921 Chicago Typewriter, but in as much as they are alot alike, very large differences are evident. Switching to Thomas J. alone, IS a viable argument, but I can't just infere or assume the rest of the group was of like mind.
See the ammo analogy above.
There's just way too many diversities of Christianity to do so. Wasn't David K. in Waco claiming he was Christian? I am sure he was in his mind.... and he may have in fact been a Christian..

You may be able to draw similarities to the group, great. It's not that I lack the ability of anything oh Gump of knowledge, I SEE the comparison you were trying to make, its just that I think it makes a piss poor argument, but that's just me.

Who knows? maybe you just lump all Christians into one pile? Which pretty much explains your position on the subject, lack of knowledge, and the possible depravation of your soul, but that's another subject....

YOU actually said it for me... so we agree...

I dont and didnt disagree with this point, I only disagreed with the comparision and I still do.


If Hitler indicated he was Christian, his actions conveyed a different message. BUT we do NOT know in fact who he worshiped how, or if it did his soul any good,,,,,,,, just that in OUR eyes, it did not seem to follow the teaching of Christ. Still just an opinion, although widely accepted. I could safely say that IF the teachings of Christ is the standard, then it is UNLIKEY, that Mr Adolf has a mansion in the hereafter. I do not KNOW that for sure. For what man knows another man's true status with his maker?

Thomas Jefferson indicated he was Christian. I know some of his writings have come under sharp critcism, this doesn't mean he wasn't a Christian, it doesn't mean he was either.
" seems to indicate" was the wording you used. Again...your summation .....inffered on the rest of the founding fathers, whomever that group entails in your mind.

Thomas Jefferson lied? Certainly he may have done so. Then again he may have written those correspondences during a low point in his faith. Only ONE person knew for sure. Certainly he will be judged for his deeds, not Adolf's, same as you or I.

His writings "seem to indicate otherwise" .......... just opinion and NOT a widely accepted one as in the case of Adolf Hitler.

From your argument here, I suppose, you would say the founding fathers are no more Christian than Hitler. This would be your opinion and a broad sweeping statement. True? You or anyone else can't say for sure.

Making assumptions and broad sweeping statements involve a certain amount of inference, which leaves room for error. If you are satisfied with your synopisis of the founding fathers, good for you. The doesn't mean your opinion is suddenly new or widley accepted, true or false. There is no way to prove your point. I think they were all good Christian men. I have no way to prove that point. They may all be smokin a turd in hell for all I know.

I think I can read just fine.


have a good day.

 

listen to me so you wont have to argue anymore.

you cannot define the terms of what it means to be a christian. if a fella says he is christian, i am not in any position to argue with him, because it is a relatively meaningless statement. if hitler says he is christian, he is. even if he says it while slaughtering jews. for all we know, jesus told him to kill the jews, right?

being a christian is undefinable. some might say it means you are into john 3:16. some might say it means something else. nobody is right, nobody is wrong BECAUSE IT IS BASED ON FICTION!

cant you guys get it? there is no definition! there is no standard! people are for killing in the name of christianity. people are against killing for christianity. for any view on anything you can hold it and its opposite because of christianity. you can just claim thats the way your sect or whatever rolls. and you are right. chrisitnaity is a license to defy logic, to defy definition or reality.

any viewpoint is christian, because it means nothing, you can just interpret it to mean anything and you are always right.

so whether somebody is christian or not only depends on one thing, what they claim.