"Stranded in Suburbia"

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by gumborue, May 19, 2008.

  1. gumborue

    gumborue Throwin Ched

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    Stranded in Suburbia - New York Times

    warning: NYT article by liberal.

    here's a few bits.

    "we’re living in a world in which oil prices keep setting records, in which the idea that global oil production will soon peak is rapidly moving from fringe belief to mainstream assumption.

    Europeans who have achieved a high standard of living in spite of very high energy prices — gas in Germany costs more than $8 a gallon — have a lot to teach us about how to deal with that world.

    the two secrets of coping with expensive oil: own fuel-efficient cars, and don’t drive them too much.

    In Germany, as in the United States, the vast majority of families own cars (although German households are less likely than their U.S. counterparts to be multiple-car owners).

    But the average German car uses about a quarter less gas per mile than the average American car."


    i hate that you basically have to own a car to be an American

    my family has been a one car family for many years now, and im proud, but i wish it would be easier to do. i live in a pretty liberal town (at least by Southern standards) and its still nearly impossible to go without a car. limited mass transit. the chicken or the egg argument made at the end of the linked article makes me hope U.S. towns have enough foresight and backbone to forkover the $$$ needed to establish practical public transportation.
     
  2. StaceyO

    StaceyO Football Turns Me On

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    America is quite geographically different from Europe, though. Our states are the size of their countries, so we just do have to travel greater distances to get places.

    Inner city public schools are also almost universally horrible, so that is another problem with people wanting to move back into the cities.

    We are a driving country, and while I see the SUV's are going to be less and less popular, I don't see any huge trends coming back into the cities for families.

    Public transit (trains and buses) in Dallas have seen about a 10% increase in riders recently, though, and I'm sure that riding the DART train from Plano to work in downtown Dallas is probably a pretty good move.
     
  3. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Mass transit only works in places witha population density that wil support it. Sprawling metro areas like Baton Rouge won't cut it for mass trasit, Euro-style. But the village concept will have to return here as it always has been in Europe. There will be fewer giant Malls across town and more neighborhood supermarkets. Supercenters like Lowes will decline and more small hardware stores will crop up as people desire to do less driving. More local pubs and eateries and fewer big fern bars across town. More catalog and internet shopping.

    An many, many more of us will be living closer to where we work . . . or working at home. Commuting over an hour at $8/gallon is not going to make economic sense to most folks. People are going to want to live within 10 minutes of work. Populations will get denser around big industry/government/university clusters and we'll start to see more feasible mass transit and bicycle throughways like in Oregon.

    Some folks are going to get rich by being the first to implement village-concept neighborhoods and businesses when gas gets to $8. And I'm buying them when they get on NASDAQ.
     
  4. gumborue

    gumborue Throwin Ched

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    (i could really get hammered for writing this on TF) it'll work if the govt wants it to work.

    amen. i try my best not to give my $$$ to national chain businesses but cant avoid it.

    the easiest way to get rid of them is for local govts to stop subsidizing them with tax breaks. really pisses me off that voters let this happen because they want to pay 0.10$ less for a box of nails.

    youre right, the internet should make existence in that world easier.

    some have been trying it for a while (my bro is an architect---showed me some of that stuff about 10yrs ago in D). just hasnt caught on. the ones ive seen look so forced (of course, they are)

    i think its actually been going on for a while and the jump in gas $$$ will accelerate the process. gentrification of most cities downtowns' was the first step.
     
  5. lsu-i-like

    lsu-i-like Playoff advocate

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    Isn't Perkins Rowe kinda like that - not exactly close to LSU, but not too far. Probably very pricey, though.
     
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    The Rouzan development will be like what I'm talking about. Denser residential housing clustered around neighborhood stores, shops, schools and close to LSU and downtown.
     
  7. LSUsupaFan

    LSUsupaFan Founding Member

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    The developers really want it to be a traditional neighborhood development, but it isnt. It is more like a strip mall with streets and with a few overpriced condos.

    There were two really well done TNDs Atlanta, the East Atlanta Village and Glenwood Park. Each had plenty of residential, retail, and office space and they backed into a gentrified neighborhood.

    As a TND Perkins Rowe really missed the mark. To me it isn't any different than the Towne Center. Rouzan looks to be a great TND example, but I am sure it will end up very watered down.
     
  8. OkieTigerTK

    OkieTigerTK Tornado Alley

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    lakeview in nola was like that pre-k. within just a few blocks there was every business imaginable it seems. they were all very small local businesses. i could walk from my house to anything. even if having to commute to work, for everything else i could get in just a few blocks from the house. that is one of the things that attracted me to the neighborhood and a big reason we bought a house in that area.

    that is what i am hoping comes back. some of the businesses are back but lakeview has a long way to go to be how it was pre-k.
     
  9. Bandit88

    Bandit88 Old Enough to Know Better

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    Lots of this concept going on. Lived in VA for a bit and there are neighborhoods like this all over N. Va and MD. They're OK, but only appeal to a certain group of folks. Moving urban lifestyles into suburban or even rural settings just grates on the non-urbanite soul, I think. Anyway, my brother lived in one and hated it and moved out.

    I, for one, think a bit of yard and a fence makes for a happier neighborhood.

    All this Liberal angst over big box stores and the automobile is funny, considering it has been the interstate system, the trucking industry, the corporate farming industry, etc. that have created the conditions for relative wealth in America that allows folks the free time to develop a Liberal worldview.

    Cause there aren't many Liberal worldviews out in the spaces of the world where folks work hard physically and take great risk to preserve and protect what they have. :thumb:
     
  10. Bengal Buddy

    Bengal Buddy Founding Member

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    Americans prize their independence. Always have. We like to go where we want when we want. Because of this and the demands of modern families, having multiple-car families have become the norm. America is different than Europe. We have different values and we prioritize those values differently. It is not something we should feel the need to apologize for; it's just the way it is. Conservation will help but it will not contribute significantly to energy independence. Until the hydrogen car is made affordable the best way to cut the cost of oil is to increase the supply, which means either OPEC increases production significantly (fat chance) or more drilling.
     

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