Military So ISIS & the Middle East

What exactly was the problem he failed to recognize? Several years ago you wanted us to go to war with Assad in Syria. Now you want us to go to war to fight Assad's main enemy in Syria. I think it is obvious that you are confused about the complex issues here. Perhaps Obama recognized that neither side was an ally deserving of US support. The situation changed when ISIS turned and went after Iraq and Obama took the action required to blunt that attack.

Watch and learn. The locals will never step up to the plate if we continue to do it all for them. Just as in Libya the President is pressuring the allies to take steps to protect their own national interests. This takes time.

Who has provided more leadership than Obama? He got Assad's WMD's destroyed. He blunted the ISIS attack on Iraq with airpower. Syria has got nuthin' we need. Assad and Hezbollah are enemies. ISIS is an enemy, the so-called moderate Syrian rebels are allied with Al Qaeda. Going to war with any of them 2 years ago made no sense at all. Let them kill each other for as long as we can. We need to push ISIS out of Iraq and secure the border with Syria as alfredeneuman suggests. Then we need to let Syria stew in its own mess until the local allies get their shit together to create a ground army capable of occupying Syria with US air and logistical support. This takes time and we have time.

Explain. Which of the three anti-American Syrian factions do you want to be in charge of Syria?

 

I think we should send a Brigade of Bimbos in yoga outfits to deliver nuclear weapons to ISIS in a stretch limo. That will show the bastards that we mean business.

 

She didn't make it. She was arrested and plead guilty to terrorism charges before she left. She converted to Islam and was going to meet her jihadist suitor that she met on the internet.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/justice/colorado-jihadist-guilty-plea/

 

And we have been supporting them for over a year now. The CIA is training them in Jordan, they are getting arms and logistical supplies and equipment. All that they can handle. This is the element you fail to credit--the "moderate" groups in Syria have never been able to coalesce and select effective leaders. They are completely fragmented and none of them have the capacity to defeat Asssad, much less ISIS. They never did. Worse, they are allied with the Al Nustra Front which is an overt Al Qadea affiliate. Any advanced equipment like shoulder-fired missiles have the high likelihood of being captured by ISIS or diverted to AL Qaeda. The rebels cannot maintain and operate tanks, helicopters, advanced missiles and such. ISIS itself has many issues with this, which is why Toyota pickup trucks are their military vehicle of choice.

We cannot count on these guys to defeat and occupy Syria even with all the airpower we can muster. We never could.

Hindsight is keen, ain't it. All of the rhetoric from you and the Republicans about Syria has been for failing to take on Assad! Then ISIS overreached by trying to take over Iraq before even finishing the job in Syria and now Obama has been a failure for not fighting ISIS with Assad?

Whenever someone starts trying to make it about me, then I know he has exhausted his logic. Is your blind opposition to Obama somehow better? It's a debate, Cochise. A debate about Obama policies that we disagree on. So lay out your arguments and quit pretending that you are shocked to find an opponent actually opposing you.

What are these "reports"? You have cited conservative bloggers opinions galore. Even a poll that list what Americans believe about Obama's international respect. What actual evidence from our allies abroad have stated or even signaled this lack of respect or the lies that he is accused of?

Have they been used against anybody? No. Was that the whole idea? Yes. Are they imaginary as they were in Iraq? Almost certainly.

Talk about ignoring credit . . . You think Putin acted out of the blue? Ya' think it may have had something to do with the fact that Obama was about to destroy Syria's air defense system in order to destroy their WMD's? Putin is the one who blinked and told Assad to wake up and smell the coffee.

More personal diatribe in the absence of facts and logic.

Look, the border is real. It has existed for a hundred years. But its precise physical position isn't important. The important difference between Arabs who consider themselves Syrians and the Arabs that consider themselves Iraqis is ancient and significant. Alfredeneuman makes a good point that task one for the US is retaking Iraq and that means driving ISIS beyond the border and securing it. That will require Iraqi and Kurdish ground forces that will not fight in Syria. That border is about the limit of what we can expect from them.

Al Qaeda has attacked the United States of America directly destroying towers in New York and attempting to demolish the fucking Pentagon. What has ISIS done to compare? Don't be afraid of their rhetoric.

They have not seized US arms, they have seized Iraqi arms that the Iraqis had trouble maintaining and have little training in how to operate. ISIS has the same problem magnified. In time their oil shipments will be curtailed. They have few options to sell the oil with no pipelines that they entirely control and no seaports. They have no railroad and any trucks that they might sell small batches of oil in are highly vulnerable to US airpower. This is the kind of thing that Obama is pressuring local allies to do. In time ISIS will be starved of outside money and resources. Already Turkey has restricted allowing goods and people into Syria. ISIS cannot win a war of attrition. We can and time is on our side.

Puhhleeeeze . . .

In fact, I do. We have allies around the world that we owe and who owe us. Syria is not and has never been either of these. We take measures to protect our allies at great expense. Why is it suddenly important to protect enemies that hate us? They made this mess themselves. Don't pretend that you are a bleeding heart liberal about the people of Syria. We cannot preserve Syria and be an effective ally of Israel. We cannot be the worlds policeman. We are going broke trying to be. We have to harden our hearts and learn that there are situations beyond our control and beyond our best national interests to get involved in.

Well, that is the key issue and the sticking point. We can drive ISIS out of Iraq with Kurdish and Iraqi forces, hopefully. We can strangle ISIS in Syria economically and hammer them with airstrikes and drone assassinations. But there is nothing we can do to drive them out of Syria without allied ground forces that can and will take them on on the ground. Right now there is only Assad and he has been weakened severely. We are not going to support Assad and Hezbollah. Who will occupy Syria and expel ISIS and help all these people that you care so deeply for? Turkey? Saudi Arabia? Jordan? Probably not. Perhaps a coalition of all Arab League nations including Egypt might get it done, but there are huge political differences between them.

In a strange way it might be good to allow ISIS to defeat Assad and control all of Syria. That might finally wake up Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the Arab League to take action before Israel does. And while Israel could certainly defeat Assad and take on ISIS, it is far from certain that they would overreach like that. They cannot afford heavy casualties and long wars. And they are prudent, as we should be.

It is best to temper expectations when it comes to "solving" all of Syria's problems with terrorists, refugees, minority dictators, ISIS, Iranian backers, etc. And we must always ask ourselves, "Is this really our fight?"

 

Doing nothing was the right call when both sides are our enemies. We did not have a dog in the fight.

ISIS is fighting Assad. We either fight them both or we are fighting with one side. Geez, I shouldn't have to explain this.

Nobody has cared about the Bedouin nomads. They cross all the desert borders. But the civil, political, and social differences between Syria and Iraq have been long-standing. The two governments care very much about every inch of turf. Just because ISIS crosses it without challenge from the current weak governments does not make the border go away. The point that you keep missing is that Iraqis won't fight for Syria and Syrians will not fight for Iraq. THIS is what makes the border important, not the actual line in the sand.