I disagree with this statement. I'm not trying to attack your credibility but it simply is not accurate. I've never seen any statistics that set forth that over 75% of Americans condemn all Muslins, I haven't even seen figures that would even support the statement that over 75% of Americans have a negative view of Muslins. The poll numbers you provided don't support the statement. However, if your statement were true, it would certainly explain why Obama wouldn't want his connections to the Muslin faith discussed very much.
No, you turned the words around, she said that many people disagree with some rhetoric or ritual in their church and they still do remain in that church. I'll give you an example from personal experience, which is all I can speak of. I left a church because I was on the finance committee and the pastor wanted to use the churchs bank account as a personal bank account. We were definitely at odds over this, so I stepped down and left the church. However, the church i am currently attending, just before the offering, he as all tithers to stand up when he is praying before the offering. Even though I am a tither, I dont stand up, because it is hypocritical to single out people and to show other people who may not agree with tithing or cant afford it at the moment, so I dont stand out of respect for myself and others.
my information is wrong, I definitely used the wrong words that and I can concede that in saying that Americans condemn that religion, but in the range of 50-75% dont have favorable view of the religion.
I care about his Condi insult because it's an insult aimed at her because she is a Black woman who has succeeded within the Republican party, or in JW's mind, the wrong party. Her success should be celebrated in that church, not made a mockery of. My comment certainly wasn't an attempt to sway your vote, simply engage a dialogue. Since you've already said you were unaware of JW's comments regarding 9/11 then I find it interesting you've chosen to label me a homer because I don't see the correlation. Pearl Harbor did get attacked. I guess that part escaped the Reverend. As for your last comment, pretty disingenuous. You know full well that Hillary would receive NO PASS for buying into or associating with a known feminist who made comments damning all men.
Well, I am unsure how I did that. This thread is about Obama's ongoing close relationship with a fringe minister. These are not small issues. Not to imply that your example was small, but I was speaking of larger moral disputes. Bigotry, Sexism, and Homophobia are what I would consider large issues that will make most people think about where they worship. Apparently Obama repudiates the racist statements of his pastor but still remains close. I don't see how many people would remain in a church that preached exclusion if they didn't agree with it. Perhaps I'm wrong but it doesn't seem logical to me. Obama claims he does not hold with these ideals, yet has been close to this church and man for many years. It seems like a conflict. HatcherTiger just had a great suggestion. We should discuss it over wine. Sure is tough to always understand how people feel through the printed word. Too many misreads and such. Nothing like a huge steak and a few dozen bottles of wine to make discussions civilized and enjoyable.:thumb:
Is it a conflict because who he is or would a normal person stay in a church with those views. I am going out on a limb and say some people would stay. I know that contradicts my statement earlier about speaking for the majority. But I think some folks would say, because if this is just a very small sample class of his sermons then people in his church arent exposed to it as much as the media would have you believe.
Well I would say both but to a greater extent, Obama would be more aware of the impact this could have on him. He is in politics after all, and being a black man, surely he understands he would endure great scrutiny. I just think he is sharper than this. It's puzzling. That's a reasonable conclusion. But what if it's a fair representation of the Rev's general ideas? Any chance that Obama was not aware of it? Congregations tend to discuss controversy when it happens in their own church. At least my church seemed to do this. I don't know, but it's a tough situation he is in right now.
Perspective is a funny thing. I heard his speech and, while eloquent and inclusive, still seemed to excuse black America from making racist comments. I simply do not feel that black Americans get a pass on racism. Otherwise Obama's comments were pretty much on the mark. You are correct, McCain should have repudiated his minister completely . . . but so should have Obama.
