OK, I'm seeking out Democrats for some "deprogramming"...

If you had any interest in a serious discussion (about something that happened 50 years ago) you would have made your statement about what KKKoulter said and asked what we thought.

But that's not what you did. You then said we were commies and unamerican. But you want serious discussion. Give me a break.

Further, the source of your info IS RELEVANT. Your source is lower than whale shi$ at the bottom of the ocean.


I am not particularly interested in this discussion. I know there were commies in roosevelt's administration. It was 50 years ago. There were nazis and traitors in Reagan and Nixon administrations.


You have a double standard second to none. It's pointless to discuss anything with you because the rules you apply to me, don't apply to you - it's called"How to be a right winger 101"

 

Well, JD, I'm not going to call you names, so don't fire at me.

Instead, I'll ask you to refute what Ann Coulter says. I haven't read any of her books, so I don't know about her. But she's not the only one who has cited the Verona Project. You may dismiss her, but will you not be able to dismiss other more mainstream pundits so easily without trying to refute the argument directly.

Now, I have never and will never say that all Democrats are Communists. I would say that Harry Truman was a pretty tough anti-Communist, judging by the lengths to which he went in Korea, Turkey, and Greece to contain it. I think, rather, that there was a sense of complacency among our most poweful officials in high echelons of power at the time, and complacency leads to stupidity. I honestly think most people in power were not taking the Communist infiltration threat seriously and were not thinking it was a huge problem. A similar mindset exists today concerning the threat of infiltration of our society, not by Communists, but by radical Islamists. And, yet again, it seems as if the left is making excuses for them, running interference for them, or just ignoring the problem. It's not treason in my opinion, though. It's ignorance and fool-hardyness in my opinion.

There were a lot of Leftists (not Democrats, as not all Democrats are hard lefties, in my opinion) then, as there are a lot of Leftists now, who don't understand this one simple truth: the United States of America has enemies. Enemies who hate us, hate our freedom, hate our society, hate everything we stand for, and wish to destroy us. These enemies cannot be reasoned with, cannot be negotiated with, cannot be appeased, and cannot be ignored. Whether that enemy has been British Imperialism, Southern Secessionism, Fascism, Nazism, Japanese Imperialism, Communism, Globalism, or Islam, the goal of the enemy has remained the same; to destroy America and American freedom and sovereignty. And there will always be a few people in America who, for one misguided reason or another, do not see the threat, refuse to see the threat, or give aid and comfort to the enemy. The phenomenon is not by any means limited to the Left either: a few misguided souls on the right formed the America First Committee in 1940 and cheered when Paris fell to the Nazis. But it does seem like the GOP always saw much more clearly the threat the U.S.S.R. and global Communism posed to America than the Democrats ever did. Does this mean all Democrats are Commie traitors? Of course not! But it does seem that they did not seem to take the threat of Communist infiltration as seriously as some other people in American government did.

I'll use an argument you have used JD. I don't like it when the Republican Party, the party of Lincoln, for Heaven's sakes, is accused of being racist, any more than you like the Democratic Party, the party of Jefferson, perhaps the single greatest authority on individual liberty of all time, being accused of being "soft" on national security and being pro-Communist. But hey, since so many people believe the GOP is racist, somewhere down the line we must have done or not done something to get that rep, whether it's true or not, whether it's deserved or not.

By the same token, the Democratic Party must have done or not done something, somewhere down the line, to get the rep they have of being "soft" on national security, pro-Communist/socialist, and unconcerned about defending America from the people who want to destroy it, whether it's true or not, whether it's deserved or not.

Can you honestly refute the Verona files? Can anyone? Come on, let's have a debate on the merits of the message, without trying to smear the messenger.

 

JD...You admit that there were...That's a start.

Secondly, the source is relevant, but what about the facts she produces. Does her philosophy make her whaleshit, or do her facts? Can you differentiate on this subject?

Thirdly, I have never called you Un-American or a Communist, I merely said that being a member of that Party-if none could come forward and offer a logical reasoning behind why the Party should still be around after despicable acts such as the ones that took place during FDR's tenure as POTUS-was to be totally Unpatriotic...

What are you going to say, JD? That you are a proud Democrat, but only Proud of the last 23 years? A proud Democrat, or just proud of what they've done in the past 57 years?

The Republican Party came to prominence as the Whig Party died out. The reason the Republicans came to such prominence was the Slavery question, and abolitionists flocked into the Party in the early going...Quite an auspicious beginning, though I'm sure there have been bumps along the way...

JD, If you disagree with Coulter's tone, tenor, or even her delivery, then that's fine, and you have a valid point...

But can you refute her information that I spoke about? Can you HONESTLY rationalize your reasoning as to the need of the Democratic Party, or for you to be a part of a Party that had that happen to it?

If you can, please do...I came here looking for responses. If you like, we can continue this personally by e-mailing me at [email protected]

JD, don't turn off because you don't like the Messenger...Let's hash out the message...Honestly...

 

Come on TigerEducated. You don't want me to think your name is a misnomer.

I made a point about Nixon, and your response was his record as a young Senator. Please!

You apparently put a lot of emphasis on Ann Coultor's opinion. I don't, and I am not going to do your homework for you. Sure, there were Democratic administrations guilty of some type of sin. But, get the timber out of your own eye. Go do a search on Henry Kissinger and his lovely contributions to humanity.

 

I had a HIST 2082 under Ben Martin at LSU, who was former Army Intelligence as well as worked at the Pentagon, and then later on Kissinger's staff himself. He didn't think too highly of him to be honest, but I think that's more to do with the huge workload that he threw on his subordinates.

Martin gave an enlightening class on Nixon and Kissinger and their time in power, and their time dealing with the USSR and China...as well as some interesting thoughts on the USSR and how they enslaved millions, and how Mao killed about 20,000,000 himself while being labeled by some Democrats as an "agrarian reformer"...

Look, I got a source of information with annotated, documentable, and verifiable proof. I came here and asked for the other side of the coin while interjecting my own opinion about the information...

If you want to refute it, then do a better job of, "You're just uninformed, I'm not doing your homework for you."

I spent the entire Spring 2001 Semester at LSU reading books about their efforts in China and Russia, I think I'm pretty well versed in it, and I honestly think that while MAD, SALT, and all those other things were rather morbidly amazing things to conjure up, but they did the trick at the time, and it wasn't exactly as if there was a handbook to diplomacy with the Chinese under that whackup, or Russia, either...

If you have some literature or a link that could help me form a non-partisan, more well-rounded view of the situation, I'm ALL FOR IT. PLEASE DO. But don't tell me to go out and do my homework when I'm here asking you to refute those things. If you can't refute them, don't hide behind the fact that I'm uninformed. Inform, me...I assure you I'm not necessarily a tabula rasa, but I'm pretty "open tabula" when it comes to seeing things from all angles...

Seriously...Try me...

 

TE

Get this through your head - I don't give a F%%K about what KKKoulter says. I really don't. I know there were commies in roosevelt's administration just like I know that nixon and reagan admins were replete with traitors and fascists. Maybe I'll drudge up some Mother Jones hack and "prove" it to you - you offer a similar source.

What I do care about is being called a commie and unamerican, and then being asked to engage in civil discussion.

That WILL NOT HAPPEN - ON ANYTHING. You've shown your colors, and I'm not interested

 

In other words, you refuse to refute what she says, and you don't refute the Party for which you claim membership in?

You don't say that she's not untrue in her facts, you refuse to speak about them, and then you hide behind the tenor of my post...

Well, JD, I'm here to tell you, that your Party is a party that was capable of allowing COMMUNISTS TO INFILTRATE IT and BEND THE EAR OF THE POTUS. THEY PULLED STRINGS SO STALIN COULD GET POLAND.

They allowed nuclear secrets to get to the Russians, which allowed Americans to have to live in fear of Nuclear Destruction for almost 50 years...

If the actions by those who wrapped themselves in the colors of your party, and those who called themselves Democrats doesn't deserve rebuking, and if you CANNOT CALL THE PARTIES OFFICIAL RESPONSE ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT I CALLED IT, then tell me why, or just admit that I'm telling the TRUTH, big boy...

I don't care for either party to be honest. I think Political parties always produce problems, and stifle individual thoughts and are too pigeon holing for their own good. But, I'm much more favorable to Republicans in light of the infiltration, espionage, Communist sympathizing, and general covering up of these activities by the highest level Executive and Legislative Democrats. This includes the POTUS...

You say that I'm some kind of Republicans, but I'm not...It's just that the more I read, the more it seems Republicans are nowhere near as poor for this country as Democrats HAVE BEEN AND HAVE THE ABILITY TO BE.

The Democrats and their activities and the subsequent covering up and buffing of their reputation caused fear of Nuclear Destruction to cast its tall shadow over EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN LIVING IN THIS COUNTRY FOR THE NEXT FIFTY YEARS, so I guess in a way, what happened 50 years ago is a pretty relevant topic...

But, go hide behind your so called slight to your "patriotism"...A party like the Democrats seems to act like cockroaches when you turn the lights on...They crawl around when the lights are off, but you flick the switch, and they go scurrying for the walls...

JD, defend your party in the midst of this "egregious assault" on their character, and your own....Or hide behind your own petty excuses for not refuting the evidence that this woman presents in this book....

The readers of this board are watching...

 

Jetstorm,

I disagree with you that our enemy is Islam. Our enemy is militant Islam. Just as there are many factions of Christianity (e.g. Episcopalians vs. Southern Baptists), there are many factions of Islam.

Most Democrats are not ignorant about the nature of the world. It's just that our approach to the world is different than yours. A common technique with conservatives is to find the most outrageous liberal position and paint the entire Democratic party with that brush. I can easily find outrageous conservative positions and do the same.

I don't support the policy of the Iraq war (that's another subject). I do support an aggressive CIA and would support increasing their funding by several times. We should fight this war in the shadows not on Al Jazeera. Trust me, I would be the first person to push Bin Laden off the Empire State building if I had the chance.

My problem with conservatives is what you just said about us being at war with Islam. If that is the policy of the United States, this war will never end – unless you are willing to nuke every Muslim country on the planet. Every time Bush pounds his chest on TV, you can bet that the Pakastani equivalent of Rush Limbaugh howls at the airwaves that Musharref is betraying his country by supporting the U.S. The moderates in the Muslim world have a very hard time supporting the U.S. when the Christianity vs. Muslim line is being bandied about (especially if it comes from the U.S.). If Musharref falls ( and this is a real possibility) then we will have real problems. This is definitely not in our national interest.

 

And some neo-conservatives label Hitler a visionary.

As far as Kissinger goes, I was referring to his activities in Chile.

The fact that you blame millions of deaths on Democrats proves that you are not honest about the issues. Kennedy and Johnson sent many young men to fight communism whether you agree with their decisions or not.

You still avoided the point about Nixon. He tried to subvert the constitution of the United States, and you cannot run away from that fact.

Also, what do you have to say about that fact that Bush gave $125 million in aid to the Taliban before Sept. 11, 2001.

 

I never, NEVER EVER blamed millions of deaths on Democrats...I may have called them unpatriotic, and I may have inferred that they allowed their Party to be a haven for Communists spies in our government, and won't even admit nor rebuke their party for it...But I have NEVER inferred that, and you misconstruing my words to insinuate that is duly noted, and none too appreciated...

I meant to say that Democrats actually pshawed the threats of these individuals and these regimes, not that they were responsible...SHEESH!

As for your thoughts on the $125 billion we gave to Afghanistan...I'll answer as long as YOU answer about who lobbied Congress personally to get the Taliban removed from "dangerous government" lists so they could get the $$$ flowing back into Afghanistan when they saw the Communists lost to Osama and his personally bankrolled Jihad against the Russian Commies...

It was Clinton and Gore...and they lobbied before Congress PERSONALLY on Afghanistan and the Taliban's behalf...

Now what were you saying?