Log in or Sign up

OBL endorses John Kerry

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by uscpuke, Nov 1, 2004.

Page 1 of 3

uscpuke Founding Member

Joined:

Nov 30, 2003

Messages:

1,310

Likes Received:

2

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/33124.htm

My apologies for an earlier post, where I kind of lumped all Kerry supporters on this board with OBL. They deserve better than that :thumb:

The point remains however, that if you are a red state and support Bush, Osama and friends will bomb/terrorize/kill you. If you are a blue state, then that is a peace treaty offering to Osama.

uscpuke, Nov 1, 2004

#1
red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

Joined:

Oct 21, 2002

Messages:

45,195

Likes Received:

8,736

You must also be really afraid of Kerry to try to get anybody to believe a tabloid story (NEW YORK POST) quoting a mysterious "respected" institute's alternate translation. Fact is, that is not what Bin ladin said. From your story:

"It means that any U.S. state that will choose to vote for the white thug Bush as president, it means that it chose to fight us and we will consider it an enemy to us, and any state that will vote against Bush, it means that it chose to make peace with us and we will not characterize it as an enemy," the Web site said, according to MEMRI's translation.

Here is the translation straight from Al Jazeera:

Full Text of Bin Ladins Speech

"In conclusion, I tell you in truth, that your security is not in the hands of Kerry, nor Bush, nor al-Qaida. No. Your security is in your own hands. And every state that doesn't play with our security has automatically guaranteed its own security."

The word "state" means "country" internationally and everybody knows it. Bin Ladin doesn't mention voting at all. He's trying to keep our allies from joining us in the war on Al Qaida.

state *noun
1. A condition or mode of being, as with regard to circumstances: a state of confusion.

2. Physics. The condition of a physical system with regard to phase, form, composition, or structure: Ice is the solid state of water.

3. The sphere of supreme civil power within a given polity: matters of state.

4. A body politic, especially one constituting a nation: the states of Eastern Europe.

5. One of the more or less internally autonomous territorial and political units composing a federation under a sovereign government: the 48 contiguous states of the Union.

red55, Nov 1, 2004

#2
uscpuke Founding Member

Joined:

Nov 30, 2003

Messages:

1,310

Likes Received:

2

I am not 'really afraid of Kerry' to post this. The truth is that the 15 people who actually view this thread will have zero impact on the election, so try again.
From the story:

That term "specifically refers to an American state, like Tennessee," Carmon said, adding that if bin Laden were referring to a "country" he would have used the Arabic word "dawla."
Click to expand...

MEMRI also translated an analysis of bin Laden's statement from the Islamist Web site al-Qal'a, well known for posting al-Qaeda messages, which agreed that bin Laden's use of the word "ay-wilaya" was meant as a "warning to every U.S state separately."
Click to expand...

uscpuke, Nov 1, 2004

#3
red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

Joined:

Oct 21, 2002

Messages:

45,195

Likes Received:

8,736

To quote another bin Ladin remark in the speech:

"Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom. If so, then let him explain to us why we don't strike for example – Sweden?"

He's talking about other countries -- not US states.

red55, Nov 1, 2004

#4
SabanFan The voice of reason

Joined:

Oct 21, 2002

Messages:

26,080

Likes Received:

1,247

red55 said:

To quote another bin Ladin remark in the speech:

"Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom. If so, then let him explain to us why we don't strike for example – Sweden?"

He's talking about other countries -- not US states.
Click to expand...

I find it ironic that you have to argue for OBL in order to defend Kerry.

SabanFan, Nov 1, 2004

#5
uscpuke Founding Member

Joined:

Nov 30, 2003

Messages:

1,310

Likes Received:

2

I really should have put an asterisks next to my title 'OBL endorses Kerry' as one for entertainment purposes only. This does not mean I doubt the story's authenticity, because it could very well be true. Al Quada already blew up a train to influence elections and it worked for them, helping get a Socialist party elected in Spain. Why would they now be hesitant to threaten red states or even the country as a whole for voting for Bush?
Even if OBL does not want Bush to win, this does not mean Kerry will do a poor job. It would be a stupid assumption that just b/c OBL does not want a Bush victory (meaning he does want a Kerry win) that it is wrong to vote for Kerry. It is wrong to vote for Kerry for many other reasons, this not being one. However I thought the story was a bit interesting and thought it could generate some entertaining discussion.

uscpuke, Nov 1, 2004

#6
ashgeaux Founding Member

Joined:

Jan 14, 2003

Messages:

222

Likes Received:

0

I read the entire speech. I think it was the transcript from Al Jazeera, so it was a biased source but opposite from NY Post. The most shocking thing was that there were a few quotes that were almost exact replicas of some Democratic talking points.

The man obviously hates Bush. I guess you can take that which ever way you want.

Assuming he wrote the speech he appears to be an extremely intelligent person. A master at propaganda. He also knows more about the US election process that most Americans. Which makes me think when he refrences states he means actual US states. It was a direct message to the U.S.

It's interesting that in the 90's his whole anti-American crap was about converting us all to Islam, but now he just wants us to pull out our troops.

I think in a way part of his plan has worked. People are arguing over his words when we should all just be united in hating him and wanting him dead.

ashgeaux, Nov 1, 2004

#7
LSUGradin99 I Bleedeth Purple 'N Gold

Joined:

Nov 17, 2003

Messages:

15,579

Likes Received:

475

Red. I am not sure why you are even debating what he means by state. It is quite obvious. Who gives a crap about what he thinks or says though. His little speech has no effect on the vote. We are all americans and the mere fact that we ARE voting is something he can never take away from us and he just can't handle it.

Here is a complete transcript of his speech (LONG):

Some Nobody said:

Praise be to Allah who created the creation for his worship and commanded them to be just and permitted the wronged one to retaliate against the oppressor in kind. To proceed:

Peace be upon he who follows the guidance: People of America this talk of mine is for you and concerns the ideal way to prevent another Manhattan, and deals with the war and its causes and results.

Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom. If so, then let him explain to us why we don't strike for example – Sweden? And we know that freedom-haters don't possess defiant spirits like those of the 19 – may Allah have mercy on them.

No, we fight because we are free men who don't sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. So shall we lay waste to yours.

No-one except a dumb thief plays with the security of others and then makes himself believe he will be secure. Whereas thinking people, when disaster strikes, make it their priority to look for its causes, in order to prevent it happening again.

But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred.

So I shall talk to you about the story behind those events and shall tell you truthfully about the moments in which the decision was taken, for you to consider.

I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.

The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorized and displaced.

I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy.

The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond.

In those difficult moments many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors.

And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.

And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and intolerance.

This means the oppressing and embargoing to death of millions as Bush Sr. did in Iraq in the greatest mass slaughter of children mankind has ever known, and it means the throwing of millions of pounds of bombs and explosives at millions of children – also in Iraq – as Bush Jr. Did, in order to remove an old agent and replace him with a new puppet to assist in the pilfering of Iraq's oil and other outrages.

So with these images and their like as their background, the events of September 11th came as a reply to those great wrongs, should a man be blamed for defending his sanctuary?

Is defending oneself and punishing the aggressor in kind, objectionable terrorism? If it is such, then it is unavoidable for us.

This is the message which I sought to communicate to you in word and deed, repeatedly, for years before September 11th.

And you can read this, if you wish, in my interview with Scott in Time Magazine in 1996, or with Peter Arnett on CNN in 1997, or my meeting with John Weiner in 1998.

You can observe it practically, if you wish, in Kenya and Tanzania and in Aden. And you can read it in my interview with Abdul Bari Atwan, as well as my interviews with Robert Fisk.

The latter is one of your compatriots and co-religionists and I consider him to be neutral. So are the pretenders of freedom at The White House and the channels controlled by them able to run an interview with him? So that he may relay to the American people what he has understood from us to be the reasons for our fight against you?

If you were to avoid these reasons, you will have taken the correct path that will lead America to the security that it was in before September 11th. This concerned the causes of the war.

As for it's results, they have been, by the grace of Allah, positive and enormous, and have, by all standards, exceeded all expectations. This is due to many factors, chief amongst them, that we have found it difficult to deal with the Bush administration in light of the resemblance it bears to the regimes in our countries, half of which are ruled by the military and the other half which are ruled by the sons of kings and presidents.

Our experience with them is lengthy, and both types are replete with those who are characterized by pride, arrogance, greed and misappropriation of wealth. This resemblance began after the visits of Bush Sr. to the region.

At a time when some of our compatriots were dazzled by America and hoping that these visits would have an effect on our countries, all of a sudden he was affected by those monarchies and military regimes, and became envious of their remaining decades in their positions, to embezzle the public wealth of the nation without supervision or accounting.

So he took dictatorship and suppression of freedoms to his son and they named it the Patriot Act, under the pretense of fighting terrorism. In addition, Bush sanctioned the installing of sons as state governors, and didn't forget to import expertise in election fraud from the region's presidents to Florida to be made use of in moments of difficulty.

All that we have mentioned has made it easy for us to provoke and bait this administration. All that we have to do is to send two Mujahideen to the furthest point East to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al-Qaida, in order to make the generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic, and political losses without their achieving for it anything of note other than some benefits for their private companies.

This is in addition to our having experience in using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers, as we, alongside the Mujahideen, bled Russia for ten years, until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat.

All Praise is due to Allah.

So we are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah.

That being said, those who say that al-Qaida has won against the administration in the White House or that the administration has lost in this war have not been precise, because when one scrutinizes the results, one cannot say that al-Qaida is the sole factor in achieving those spectacular gains.

Rather, the policy of the White House that demands the opening of war fronts to keep busy their various corporations – whether they be working in the field of arms or oil or reconstruction – has helped al-Qaida to achieve these enormous results.

And so it has appeared to some analysts and diplomats that the White House and us are playing as one team towards the economic goals of the United States, even if the intentions differ.

And it was to these sorts of notions and their like that the British diplomat and others were referring in their lectures at the Royal Institute of International Affairs. (When they pointed out that) for example, al-Qaida spent $500 000 on the event, while America, in the incident and its aftermath, lost – according to the lowest estimate – more than 500 billion dollars.

Meaning that every dollar of al-Qaida defeated a million dollars by the permission of Allah, besides the loss of a huge number of jobs.

As for the size of the economic deficit, it has reached record astronomical numbers estimated to total more than a trillion dollars.

And even more dangerous and bitter for America is that the Mujahideen recently forced Bush to resort to emergency funds to continue the fight in Afghanistan and Iraq, which is evidence of the success of the blee-until-bankruptcy plan – with Allah's permission.

It is true that this shows that al-Qaida has gained, but on the other hand, it shows that the Bush administration has also gained, something of which anyone who looks at the size of the contracts acquired by the shady Bush administration-linked mega-corporations, like Haliburton and its kind, will be convinced. And it all shows that the real loser is...you.

It is the American people and their economy. And for the record, we had agreed with the Commander-General Muhammad Ataa, Allah have mercy on him, that all the operations should be carried out within twenty minutes, before Bush and his administration notice.

It never occurred to us that the commander-in-chief of the American armed forces would abandon 50 000 of his citizens in the twin towers to face those great horrors alone, the time when they most needed him.

But because it seemed to him that occupying himself by talking to the little girl about the goat and its butting was more important than occupying himself with the planes and their butting of the skyscrapers. We were given three times the period required to execute the operations – All Praise is Due to Allah.

And it's no secret to you that the thinkers and perceptive ones from among the Americans warned Bush before the war and told him, "All that you want for securing America and removing the weapons of mass destruction – assuming they exist – is available to you, and the nations of the world are with you in the inspections, and it is in the interest of America that it not be thrust into an unjustified war with an unknown outcome."

But the darkness of the black gold blurred his vision and insight, and he gave priority to private interests over the public interests of America.

So the war went ahead, the death toll rose, the American economy bled, and Bush became embroiled in the swamps of Iraq that threaten his future. He fits the saying, "Like the naughty she-goat who used her hoof to dig up a knife from under the earth"

So I say to you, over 15 000 of our people have been killed and tens of thousands injured, while more than a thousand of you have been killed and more than 10 000 injured. And Bush's hands are stained with the blood of all those killed from both sides, all for the sake of oil and keeping their private companies in business.

Be aware that it is the nation who punishes the weak man when he causes the killing of one of its citizens for money, while letting the powerful one get off, when he causes the killing of more than 1000 of its sons, also for money.

And the same goes for your allies in Palestine. They terrorize the women and children, and kill and capture the men as they lie sleeping with their families on the mattresses, that you may recall that for every action, there is a reaction.

Finally, it behooves you to reflect on the last wills and testaments of the thousands who left you on the 11th as they gestured in despair. They are important testaments, which should be studied and researched.

Among the most important of what I read in them was some prose in their gestures before the collapse, where they say, "How mistaken we were to have allowed the White House to implement its aggressive foreign policies against the weak without supervision." It is as if they were telling you, the people of America, "Hold to account those who have caused us to be killed, and happy is he who learns from others' mistakes," And among that which I read in their gestures is a verse of poetry, "Injustice chases its people, and how unhealthy the bed of tyranny."

As has been said, "An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure."

And know that, "It is better to return to the truth than persist in error." And that the wise man doesn't squander his security, wealth and children for the sake of the liar in the White House.

In conclusion, I tell you in truth, that your security is not in the hands of Kerry, nor Bush, nor al-Qaida.
No.

Your security is in your own hands. And every state that doesn't play with our security has automatically guaranteed its own security.

And Allah is our Guardian and Helper, while you have no Guardian or Helper. All Peace be Upon he who follows the Guidance.
Click to expand...

LSUGradin99, Nov 1, 2004

#8
martin Banned Forever

Joined:

Oct 20, 2003

Messages:

19,026

Likes Received:

934

we arent language experts. for us to believe either side on this is just guessing. i dont think we can claim to know what he meant either way.

obviously red is right, "state" always means nation or country when used internationally, but then again, the translator specifically says that red is wrong, who is red to tell an arabic translator what the word means? i don't think we can draw a conclusion. the NY post is a conservative paper. a rather ridiculous one in fact. i am conservative myself, and i still laugh at how goofy the post is, and i read it on a semi daily basis.

martin, Nov 1, 2004

#9
tirk im the lyrical jessie james

Joined:

Feb 4, 2004

Messages:

47,369

Likes Received:

21,536

translated to German it means, 'I Am a Jelly Doughnut'.

tirk, Nov 1, 2004

#10

(You must log in or sign up to reply here.)

Page 1 of 3

Share This Page