Larry David and Bush Defending US during Vietnam

This is another example of what I have been talking about in that to have a discussion with one of these right wingers, you have to parallel a discussion explaining current events to them.

Bush recently said that he supported the Vietnam War. I am not going to spend the rest of the day in a pissing contest with you about this.

You asked me why Bush's service record is a fair political target. I have told you why. End of story.

 

Ditto Clinton. So there.

 

martin, let's not get into some whiny discussion on the fact that you are not the most courageous person in the world, and why that is not such a bad thing. You are in a lot of company.

But, there is a moral issue here. If you are not old enough to remember the Vietnam War, you will probably never understand what I am talking about. So don't try.

At that time, as far as I am concerned, anyone who was old enough to go to Vietnam, (and in Bush's case, was already in the military) and SUPPORTED the war, and therefore VOTED in FAVOR of politicans who SUPPORTED the war, and yet, purposely maneuvered to avoid going himself, which is what Bush did, are ethically and morally repugnant.

You are not going to change my position. Nothing about Bush makes me have greater contempt and utter disdain for the man. Anyone who took that position, and voted for the war to continue, and yet, purposely sought a path so he would not have to go himself, even though he was a prime candidate to go, is an utterly contemptible human being.

He was in the Air Force. If he thought the war was a good thing, then he should have done the honorable thing and volunteered to go. I am sure there were a lot of pilots there who either did not support the war, or never fully understood what we were doing there, who did not come back.

They may not have supported it, but they did their duty. If Bush did not want to go, then he should have at least stayed on regular Air Force duty and taken his chances in the luck of the draw on whether he would be sent there. He did not do that.

He deliberately chose a path to avoid going.

Most will disagree because they worship Bush. He can do no wrong. If he did something, then they will jerk their knees and defend him on anything.

But to me his position on Vietnam is repugnant.

 

thats a logical leap that i won't buy.


and gman says :

of course i agree, bush and i arent using illegal means to avoid the draft, and therefore i like both of us.

 

Martin, I am sure that you cannot make the leap.

 

Cottonbowl66,

Did you serve in the military or Vietnam?

Or

Are you a Draft Dodger?

 

Ok Cotton Bowel. This is my first and last post on any thread you initiate. By the way, all of you people who reply and get into pissing contests with him might do well not to read anything he posts and for sure not answer him. Maybe he will get tired of talking to himself, dry up, and blow away. There are too many good things to talk about concerning LSU athletics to bother with someone who has his head so far up his ass he hasn't seen the light of day since 1966.

Now, about Viet Nam! I am old enough to remember first hand!!! Let me guess, I'll bet you weren't in ROTC in Baton Rouge with me in the early to mid 60s were you. I'll also bet you were one of those people that wore your hair long and had peace signs all over your body and your old Volkswagon van. How was it standing on the Mall in Washington pissing in the reflecting pool. How was it meeting the troops coming home and trying to spit on them. By the way, I know you didn't try to spit on me because if you had, you wouldn't be here to spew out all of that venom on this board every day. Also, how is Hanoi Jane these days? Is she still your idol??

I am also old enough to remember who got us involved in that "No win situation", and who built the troop strength to 500,00+. Democrats in the White House and Democrats running the Congress. You can say all you want about W but if Al Gore was there, you might have to learn a new language. I just hope you don't run into some National Guard people who are in a bad mood.

For the life of me, I can't picture someone so full of hate for one person. I don't like anything about Bill or Hillery Clinton and I most especially have nothing but animosity for all of the Kennedy Clan especially the walrus who got away with murder sitting up there on his pompous ass infecting the whole Congress. Even feeling like that, I can't muster enough hate to be in the same ball park with you.

Now, one last thing, you might as well get used to W because he is going to stay for another four years. If you don't like that, why don't you leave the country with some of the Hollywood set. They might even finance your trip. I'll bet France will welcome you with open arms.

Have a good day!!!

 

What if Bush did volunteer for possible combat duty in Vietnam?

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servle...icArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031773659263&path=!news&s=1045855934842


Ex-pilot, a former senior Virginia Air National Guard commander, says Bush put in for Vietnam
Bush volunteered for combat, was rejected, ex-guardsman says

BY PETER BACQUE
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER Feb 13, 2004


A former senior Virginia Air National Guard commander, who served with George W. Bush in the Texas Air Guard, says Bush volunteered for Vietnam combat service but was turned down because he did not have the required flight experience.

William J. Campenni, a retired Air Guard colonel, also said absences such as Bush's from his unit were common in the Air Guard during the period of Bush's service and still are.

He and Bush were young lieutenants and pilots in the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron of the Texas Air Guard from 1970 to 1971, Campenni said, serving under the same flight and squadron commanders, both of whom are now dead.

Campenni, 63, lives in Herndon and has participated in Republican Party politics in Northern Virginia. He retired as an Air Force pilot in 1998, last flying with the 192nd Fighter Wing based at Richmond International Airport.

According to Campenni, Bush inquired about participating in a volunteer program called Palace Alert that used Air National Guard pilots flying in the F-102 Delta Dagger interceptor jet in Vietnam.

The Air Guard advised Bush he did not have the desired 500 hours of flight time as a pilot to qualify for Palace Alert duty, and, in any event, the program was winding down and not accepting more volunteers.

"While we were not part of the same social circle outside the base," Campenni said in a letter to The Washington Times published this week, "we were in the same fraternity of fighter pilots, and proudly wore the same squadron patch."

He said a check of the 1970-71 records of the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron "and any other [Air National Guard] squadron" would show "other pilots excused for career obligations and conflicts."

Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard at Ellington Air Force Base in May 1968. In May 1972, records show he received permission to perform nonflying duties in Alabama.

"[Excuses] for employment were common then and are now in the Air Guard, as pilots frequently are in career transitions, and most commanders, as I later was, are flexible in letting their charges take care of career affairs until they return or transfer to another unit near their new employment," said Campenni, who spent 33 years in the Air National Guards of three states as his career as an aerospace engineer took him around the country.

Freeing the then-lieutenant from his Texas duties in 1972 was helped, Campenni said, because the Houston unit was changing from an operational fighter squadron to a training squadron with a new airplane, the F-101 Voodoo.

The mission switch "required that more pilots be available for full-time instructor duty rather than part-time, traditional reservists with outside employment," he said. Bush was a part-time Guard member, as most Guard airmen are.

"The winding down of the Vietnam War in 1971 provided a flood of exiting active-duty pilots for these instructor jobs, making part-timers like Lt. Bush and me somewhat superfluous," Campenni said.

"Any pilot could have left the Air Force or the Air Guard with ease after 1972 before his commitment was up," he said, "because there just wasn't room for all of them anymore."

Bush, who was working on a political campaign in Alabama, was assigned temporarily to a unit in Montgomery, Ala. Democrats have charged there is no proof that Bush showed up for Air Guard duty there.

During the Vietnam War era, many men saw joining the National Guard as a means of avoiding combat duty. American political leaders avoided mobilizing the hometown units for duty in the Southeast Asian war.

"There was one big exception to this abusive use of the Guard to avoid the draft," Campenni said, "and that was for those who wanted to fly, as pilots or crew members."

Air Guard pilot duty required up to 2½ years of active-duty service for training, he said. Draftees served for two years, overwhelmingly in the Army.

Air National Guard units began flying supply missions in Vietnam in 1965, and the Air Guard was mobilized twice during the Vietnam War. Guard aviators in five squadrons flying the F-100 Super Sabre fighter-bomber were called up for duty in Vietnam in 1968.

"Avoiding service?" Campenni said. "Yeah, tell that to those guys."

Simply flying tactical military aircraft is dangerous, he said.

"Six of those with whom I served in those years never made their 30th birthdays because they died in crashes flying air-defense missions" in the United States, Campenni said.

"Our Texas [Air National Guard] unit lost several planes right there in Houston during Lt. Bush's tenure, with fatalities," he said.

"Just strapping on one of those obsolescing F-102s was risking one's life."


Contact Peter Bacque at (804) 649-6813 or [email protected]

 

So my post gets deleted, huh? What a bunch of thin-skinned idiots run this thing.

Read this slowly so you will get it this time: The Texas Air National Guard was a unit NOT on the rotation list to go to Vietnam. Bush got his Daddy to pull strings to get him in.

 

Jetstorm, why stop at this guy? Why not quote the Alabama National Guard guy who suddenly remembers that he and George Bush served exactly six weekends together just where Bush was supposed to be in Alabama. That guy was also a "staunch Republican."

Of course none of this appears anywhere in Bush's service records. Strange.

What a crock. It just surprises me that the Bush people have not had these liars lined up four years ago.

There is also a Texas Air National Guard officer who has come forward and claims that Bush's Guard records were "sanitized" by order of the Texas Governor's office while Bush was Governor of Texas. I noticed the Bush people quickly said he was a disguntled former officer who was pissed at his superior.