Oh, can it already JD! It's a free country, and conservative evangelical Christians in this country have the right, if they so choose, to organize politically and state their views. What has Pat Robertson suggested that is so evil and so heinous that would forever destroy free society? A great revival, perhaps? A return to traditional Judeo-Christian morality and the sanctity of the nuclear family as our supreme set of core values? What would be so awful about that? That was the way it was for the first 180 years of this nation's history, and while we weren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, hey, we became a political, economic, and military superpower, and the freest people on Earth, so I guess we turned out okay. You claim Robertson, Falwell, Alan Keyes, other moral/religious conservatives, are nuts screaming for theocracy. Webster's defines theocracy as government by religious clerics, preists, church officials, rabbis, what have you. Iran is a theocracy. The Vatican is a theocracy. Now I've watched Robertson's show "The 700 Club" on several occasions. I've heard Falwell speak on TV and in person on a few occasions. I've read a lot of their writings, including Falwell's autobiography. Nowhere, at any time, in writing, in a speech, or on television, have I seen any of them say anything to the effect of, "I think America should be a theocracy, with my church (Southern Baptist, Pentecostal, whatever) the official ruling church." In fact, if you ever actually took the time to listen to them, you'd realize that's not what they want at all. They are simply calling for one simple acknowledgement of a historical truth; that the United States is a Christian nation, established by the Founding Fathers (the vast majority of them Christians) with the core principles of this faith in mind, to be a nation of free citizens, and that the First Amendment is designed to do one thing, and one thing alone: prevent the establishment of a national church along the lines of the Church of England or the Catholic Church, so that no one Christian sect can wield the heavy hand of the state as a weapon against the others. Robertson has NEVER called for theocracy or the establishment of a national church; he does, however, firmly believe that America is a Christian nation and that it is best governed by Christians from a Christian ethical perspective. While that may be a bit "exclusive" (I'll use a kind word) it's certainly not extreme when you look at the general electorate; people simply feel more comfortable voting for someone of their same faith. Is that bad? I don't think so. I'm kind of that way myself. And don't try to give me this garbage about how Robertson is intolerant of other faiths. Israel and American Jews have NEVER found a more staunch ally than Robertson. He has made common cause with Catholics and cooperated with their ministries despite doctrinal differences. He has even reached out to the Mormons and the Universalists (if simply on morality issues). The only religion he has ever called out as a bad faith is Islam. And frankly, it is. Every day, sermons are preached from the great holy mosques of Mecca and Medina and the Shii'te cities of Iran, and the imams scream, "DEATH TO AMERICA! DEATH TO ISRAEL! OH ALLAH, SMITE DOWN ALL KAFIRS (infidels)! HUMILIATE THEM! LET ISLAM SPREAD OVER THE WORLD!" THAT is theocracy! THAT is hate! THAT is religious intolerance! It's even starting to spread to Canada and the U.S. But no one speaks of that, I guess 'cause they are too afraid to be called bigots for criticizing Islam. Oh, but it's okay to criticize Robertson and evangelical Christians! THEY are the intolerant ones, simply because they want to build a society that honors God and our fellow man, respects life in all it's forms, at all it's stages, acknowledges the Bible as truth and the Ten Commandments as the foundation of all Western law, and that, with the great power that is freedom, comes the great responsibility of being a good, honest, moral citizen and setting a good example for the next generation. I don't always agree with Robertson, but I respect him. Because unlike so many others, he knows America, as great as it is, is capable of so much more. And unlike so many others, he actually gets into the horrible places of the world with his missionary outreach programs and actually tries to help people. The list of people in this world whose lives have been positively impacted by him and 700 Club ministries is very long. I only wish I could help a tenth of the people he has helped in one day in my lifetime. You don't like Christianity, fine. Despite what you may believe, it's a free country, you may believe in whatever religion you wish. You don't like Robertson's kind of Christianity, fine. I have a few doctrinal differences with him myself. You don't like him as a person, fine. You probably hate nuns and Girl Scouts too, but hey, that's your prerogative. But I think calling out Robertson as evil is a low blow, especially when you don't have a shred of evidence with which to back it up. So tell us, JD, what has he done that is so evil? Blown up a building? Taken hostages and executed them? Declared holy war on the ACLU? Tell us what he has said or done that could remotely qualify as evil? Do you have an answer, or are you doing what you like to accuse conservatives of doing, using shrill rhetoric and lies to demonize someone instead of trying to engage them in honest debate? In closing, a quote that summarizes my philosophy on America (and that Rev. Robertson might agree with): "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." -Patrick Henry
JD I think you started this thread just to see the reaction from those of us who are to the right of center politically. There are a few things I agree with the "religeous right" about and a lot of what they espouse that I can't go along with but I don't see how you can label them as "evil" By calling people like Pat Robertson and jerry Falwell evil you are putting them in the same class as the KKK, Skinhead White Supremicists, Hamas, Hezzbolah, the Islamic Jihad and the Ayran Brotherhood. Sure, Pat Robertson has expressed support for Liberian president Charles Taylor who when the truth all comes out will probably fit anybodies definintion of evil. Is Robertson "evil" for expressing that support or is Robertson simply being naive in continuing to believe in somebody he mistakingly believes is a fellow Christian?
For goodness sakes, he's praying for 3 members of the supreme court to die That's pretty damn evil to me. MY only difference with these so-called "christian" conservatives is that they insist on placing their religious beliefs into secular law and enforcing it at the point of the sword. They need to move to Saudi and try to convert them to christianity and then they can have a christian theocracy. They are freaking out about these sodomy laws - goodness, one would have thought that the USSCT REQUIRED people to engage in sodomy to hear these people. All it says is the state can't throw people in jail for sexual activity in the bedroom - the bedroom fuzz is unconstitutional. We was during 8 years of Clinton how near and dear the bedroom fuzz is to the heart of the far right. No one's making anyone sodomize. Pat can preach away about the sin of sodomy and encourage everyone not to do it - wonderful.
My problem with Religious extremists like Jerry Falwell, Robertson, Bob Jones and that ilk is their senseless Catholic bashing. It has been my experience that Southern Baptists and Pentecostals spend more time bashing Roman Catholics than preaching the Gospel. And to you Starscream, our founding fathers were not by and large Christians. They were Dieists. They did not find our country on Christian priniciples as Dieists do not believe Christ to be the Messiah. They did believe in God a Creator who created all men equally. That is the extent of their beliefs in God. After the Creation he kinda retired.
Jetstorm, you're just plain ignorant of what happened at the Constitutional Convention. Go study the accounts of those meetings. Your assertion that the First Amendment was meant for one thing alone, to prevent the establishment of a state religion, is total fabrication. You should learn your history from history, rather than from right wing religious zealots. In fact, wording very close to the effect you suggest was explicitly voted down, in favor of a much broader wording which prohibited any government action that would promote religion. Then, in later letters, both Jefferson and Madison elaborated on the purpose of the First Amendment, explicitly declaring it as a wall of separation between church and state. This is not a Christian nation founded on Christian principles. There is no Christ in the Constitution nor the Declaration of Independence. Doesn't it strike you as odd that if our founding fathers wished this to be a Christian nation, that they didn't bother to mention Christ or Christianity in the establishing documents? Robertson and Falwell don't have to explicitly state that they want a theocracy in order to work for one. That would be political suicide. Most of your long diatribe is preposterous.
So would blowjobs and anal sex be considered sodomy b/c I know I've received quite a few bj's and done the anal thing. Go ahead and lock me up!
No, maybe some of those fools on the Tiger's Lair that fantasize about LSU having a terrible team that won't do anything this year. Those people are truly evil. Don't you love the pessimists? They're like a damn cancer!
